Doll
Posts: 1036
Houston, Texas
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 03:29:35 PM » |
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My Black Dream doesn't grow upright. It is very much a sprawling bush. Is it possible my Black Dream is another cultivar?
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I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could.
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Charlie
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 06:25:14 PM » |
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Hi John,
Did you get your plant as a 2 gallon from us? If so, it is the right cultivar. We had several dozen of them and all are the same. I'm not surprised that you are getting a lot of sprawl. I think the only way to avoid that is to continue to prune so that upward facing nodes will sprout and/or to use bamboo to stake up stems until they are trained.
Charlie
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Doll
Posts: 1036
Houston, Texas
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 11:29:50 PM » |
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Charlie, I did get my Black Dream from you last September. I was just surprised to see how upright Darren's is in his photos. I will prune it when I bring it in for the winter. Thanks.
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I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could.
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farmer d
Farmer D
Posts: 5573
Hollywood, CA
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2011, 05:17:07 PM » |
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Charlie, I did get my Black Dream from you last September. I was just surprised to see how upright Darren's is in his photos. I will prune it when I bring it in for the winter. Thanks.
It is and isn't surprising to hear that Black Dream can be sprawling. I don't know if it is just mine but it has never had any problems with being that way since day 1 for me. I know Black Dragon the father is notorious for sprawling My BD has been excellent with branching a lot (plenty of SN spraying to encourage it) but as you can see from the below pic all branches hold their own and are thick and strong. My BD is in the shade mostly with a lot of water constantly and I wonder if this leads to it growing a bit more slowly so that it can grow stronger, thicker branches? I did have one time in spring where one of the main branches fell over (thought it was from a critter) but now I wonder if the weight of the branch was just too much for it to handle. Either way I staked it back up even with the buckled and crimped branch portion and it has gone on like nothing ever happened. I wonder if pruning it is the right idea. The goal in my mind is how to create stronger, thicker branching. To me that means slowing down the growth rate so the branches don't get so leggy or staking it to force it to grow within certain parameters. Come to think of it my planters are not that wide (maybe 2 feet) so the wall on one side is a great natural barrier that forces it to grow upright. Then the fact that the sunlight is also coming from the direction of the wall makes the plant want to grow in that direction as well. Well that is some food for thought as to maybe some more ways to work a hibiscus...  Farmer D |
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Charlie
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2011, 05:57:59 AM » |
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Interesting feedback, Farmer D. I would agree on all counts.
The reason pruning can work to strengthen branches is this. When you find a fast growing, thin and green stem that is growing too much toward the horizontal or wherever you don't want it, if you cut that stem just above a node that points in the direction you do want growth, that stem will then stop growing longer. You can see the stem thicken and grow stronger as the new growth that pops below the cut gets started. The newer varieties of HVH hibiscus have less problems with this sort of thing but it is still a good idea to hold pruning in your bag of solutions for when it is needed.
Also, people who grow in limited space and/or in pots can use pruning to achieve the size and shape of bush that suits their needs whether it tends to sprawl or not.
Charlie
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Charlie
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2011, 06:02:40 AM » |
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On the topic of Black Dream, we do have a few of this variety in 2 gallon pot size. We are not showing them in the online store because they were cut back in mid-summer and have not regrown to flowering size yet. However, they are starting their 3rd year and are very well established plants with lots of new growth. If anyone wants one of these, please write to me or to the office and we will set up an order.
The remainder of these will be sold in January and shipped next spring. It has not turned out to be a very good rooter so will be in very limited availability in the future.
Charlie
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Doll
Posts: 1036
Houston, Texas
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 10:01:35 AM » |
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Black Dream held up to the brutal summer we had here just fine. This is a fast growing variety which is probably why I experienced the sprawling. Next spring I will move it up to a 5 gallon pot from its current 3 gallon pot and stake it if need be. Just depends how it grows after I prune it back. Here are my 2 most recent blooms from this week. Both were 7 and a half inches.
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I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could.
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farmer d
Farmer D
Posts: 5573
Hollywood, CA
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 12:08:32 PM » |
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John those are text book perfect Black Dreams. Great plant for sure, as it gets bigger and bigger for you you'll be amazed at the number of blooms. It is a flower machine. Mine almost always has double digit blooms going on all the time now. Thanks for sharing!
Farmer D
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Maureenpm00
Posts: 57
Maureen Long Island NY
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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2011, 04:51:51 PM » |
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I was wondering what you all thought of Black Dream blooms vs. Black dragon blooms? I don't think i've seen a more gorgeous bloom that those on Black dragon, what's everyone else's opinion?
I can't wait to get Black Dragon.
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farmer d
Farmer D
Posts: 5573
Hollywood, CA
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2011, 07:37:51 PM » |
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Hi Maureen,
Your question between these two CVs is a common one. I think most would agree that Black Dragon has a more striking look to the bloom but the plant is known as a more challenging one to grow. It can grow a little sprawly and can be very tempermental with regards to it's growing conditions. I believe Charlie notes that on his page for it in the online store. Not for the beginner grower.
I have both and can say that as for ease of growing and abundant results black dream is amazing. I don't recall where you are located and what climate you have but for me in coastal so cal black dream has been one of my best CVs out of more than 70. It has grown extremely well, branches naturally, disease and pest resistant, bloom like crazy and tolerates all weather fine. During cooler weather it is amazing how dark the blooms get and they have this very waxy, wet look to them. I LOVE LOVE LOVE this plant.
My Black Dragon I got as a baby graft in March and it has grown well and finally bloomed when I was on vacation a few weeks ago. Don't know what it looked like but from the wilted leftovers it looked really big and dark.
Last year one of the HVH forum members posted a nice article about Black Dragon and her success over several years with it as she continually trimmed it and potted it up gradually over that time frame. Her pics in her post were of a picture perfect Black Dragon with multiple blooms. If I remember correctly she lived in So Cal too. So it can be done with the right conditions and a lot of care. Black Dream says just give me the basics and I'll put on a show for you!!
If you need any pics of Black Dream let me know...though I think I've posted quite a lot here to give a good idea.
Farmer D
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helixturnhelix
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2011, 08:54:22 PM » |
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Hi Maureen,
Darren is the Black Dream master, and as you can see it is very prolific and has a nice upright bush. It also looks to be a very good grower.
Black dragon is actually a pretty vigorous plant in my experience, but grows on a short bush. It can get very full if you prune it, but it never gets the height and typical bush look that Black Dream does. Black Dragon is supposed to be more difficult of a CV and it is in the regards to not being able to spring back from any mistakes as easily as other CVs. I do however believe that many people that have problems with Black Dragon live in places with high humidity like Florida, Houston etc... On the west coast we stay pretty dry and growers of Black Dragon in Southern California seem to have good luck with it.
If it helps, Black Dream is related to Black Dragon, Evagline x Black Dragon, and although not as striking as Black Dragon it is consistant in the dark red beauties it produces.
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farmer d
Farmer D
Posts: 5573
Hollywood, CA
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2011, 07:02:07 PM » |
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Some updated Black Dream pics - cold weather really agrees with this CV.
Farmer D
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farmer d
Farmer D
Posts: 5573
Hollywood, CA
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2011, 07:06:44 PM » |
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the incredibly dark colors show how much colder than usual it has been for Southern California this autumn...
Farmer D
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Maureenpm00
Posts: 57
Maureen Long Island NY
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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2011, 04:24:19 PM » |
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HI Darren and Helix - sorry i never responded to your posts from October. Your Black Dream blooms are gorgeous. I may have to add that to my wish list, but i think Black Dragons blooms are incredible and would just love to try growing it. I'm going to be looking at the store opening tomorrow to see what is for sale....can't wait. Thanks for the pics Darren  |
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Charlie
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2011, 08:21:41 PM » |
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If anyone wants a Black Dream and missed out on the 6 inch pots we made available at the store opening, don't worry, more BDs are on the way. The next ones will all be 2 gallon pots that are 3 years old now. That means they will be very strong and well developed and ready to bloom their heads off next summer.
Charlie
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