January Flower Photos of the Day

[farmer d]

It is very interesting Darren and happy New Year to you. You know the one thing that has always surprised me about your cv’s, its not the magnificent bud count but the size of the plants, when I see all them buds I am expecting to see a far larger plant and then when I do it’s a bit of a shock, I know we have bought plants at the same time and mine in a pot has grown larger than yours in the ground with about 80% less buds. It’s like yours have forsaken some plant growth for bud production, even the growth they do have is far more compact, I just wish we knew the secret to why that happens, I don’t accept its all down to the food and SN, I am sure many others including me have followed your program with nothing like your success.
Of course I think it’s a given and accepted that being in the ground is a major factor like Mike says, but I have 2 other theories, first and maybe unlikely, is it not possible that there was something in the ground [that maybe you where even unaware of] that is a tremendous help to Hibiscus, this may account for you not having the bud count now same as last December as you have altered the environment.
My second theory is a bit bizarre, well about as bizarre as beating them up for buds haha but I will try and explain.  I have read a few times that cuttings do better individually when grouped together in a pot, not sure how they know [the cuttings that is] but apparently they do, now is it not conceivable that your cv’s do much better not just because they are in the ground but that you have many in the ground right next to each other, sort of like the same thing that happens with cuttings. I do know I put 2 Electric Orange in a large pot together and had a big increase in the amount of buds of each, so maybe not so bizarre after all.

David I find this all very interesting too and Happy New Year as well!

That is some great feedback and thought provoking ideas from both you and Chris.

I am almost positive that my soil did not have anything special in it to induce those bloom profusions.  Just some big time rookie mistakes that accidentally and maybe even luckily resulted in the plants blooming like crazy but not for the right reasons.  I’m convinced after seeing such a dramatic change in my plants that they were both maxed out with space to grow their roots as I originally had only dug holes big enough to accommodate them when they were small 4” toddlers as well as being in a soil that just didn’t let in any air since there was no perlite at all.  Got to have uneven sized perlite and lots of it!!!

So I created an environment of high plant stress thru the wrong type of soil along with no room for my plants to grow their roots – my clay soil is that heavy (cement when dry and super saturated with no air when wet).  I would have to think that at this stage the plants would be in a race to reproduce as they sensed they were close to the tipping point if any other negative factors were to be added to their situation.  And being whatever energy they were producing couldn’t go into root growth it got redirected mostly to blooming along with the funky compact growth habits that we could all see in my pics.

When replanting this past spring I dug what are basically trenches (18” wide by 18” deep on avg) all the way up and down my entire planters for the roots to have a lot of freedom.  I have also greatly increased the amount of potassium too as I previously saw so many yellow leaves and leaf loss – especially during winter and heat waves.  Root rot has all but disappeared from my garden since but that is just the beginning.

Immediately upon replanting my hibiscus this past spring I saw some very different results in my plants.  First the new leaves were totally different than the existing ones that had grown on my plants in the old soil and conditions.  These new leaves were much larger, more flexible and softer.  Also the growth habits of my plants changed to being more open and much more vigorous in the vertical growth department.  They all of a sudden looked a lot more like the plants when you first get them from Charlie.  I’d always notice this drastic difference and wondered if this was just because they were growing in a greenhouse.  Of course there is still some difference but not nearly as much as before.

By the way thank you Chris for your soil recommendation – so far I have used over 100 40lb bags and it has been worth every penny.  That’s a LOT of pennies…

So now my plants are growing into such beautiful, lush bushes and with such ease but so far not the profusions of blooms.  Before I felt like I had to do so much to keep them happy.  Now it is a joy to see them thrive no matter the environmental conditions.  I still see a lot of branch tip die downs but now immediately new branching pops up all over the place.  There is so much vigor and energy just waiting inside - nice that mother nature can assist with some gentle tip pinching to help induce more branching to offset the strong vertical growth.  My instinct was that these were such special, strong plants but tricky to figure out.  Minus freezing weather I think I have turned the corner.

So the only question is the blooming.  I’m curious to see with the branch tip die downs if that will result in buds too, not just new branching.  At a minimum I will have to wait until the warmer weather returns which looks like it won’t be for a while as the polar jet is supposed to dip back down thru So Cal starting next week and stay that way thru January.  So maybe spring?  If not much in the blooming department this summer then my guess would be that my plants will continue to focus on growing until they max out their root space and then redirect their energy to blooming.  Scary question there is how long will that be? A few years?

Your observations about better results when grouping plants closer together is one that I am a believer in.  I have done some light research on Morphic Fields/Resonance and find it easy for me to see such effects.  I’ve also seen where it works in reverse and things can also go negative with groups of plants too all from one starting it.  With my space constraints on my small property this really works to my advantage and I often wonder to what degree this affects my plants.  Don’t forget that you as the gardener also have a Morphic Field that Charlie has described previously as the “Fuss Factor” where those plants he pays more attention to seem to do a lot better.  Another reason why I try to spray daily so I can spread some love around the hibs…

Farmer D

[davidwood]

That's a great read Darren but this bit ''  I have also greatly increased the amount of potassium too as I previously saw so many yellow leaves and leaf loss – especially during winter and heat waves."   has me a bit confused, I have always presumed and thought that there was no connection between the two and it was simply water [either to much or to little] not a Potassium deficiency.
Also when you have increased the Potassium did you not get a lot of burning, I always seem to.

[farmer d]

David my understanding has been that you don't get burn from potassium.  Maybe from high levels of other items that are combined with a potassium supplement for instance like salt or nitrogen.  

My increase in potassium is motivated by the goal of producing much more lush and full plants that are much less affected by stress.  The natural soil here is such a heavy clay with poor structure I am suspecting it was inhibiting the plant's ability to properly take in potassium as the roots had somewhat penetrated beyond the confines of the original holes I dug and into the clay.  I've read that signs of potassium deficiency shows in mature leaves as yellowing edges or brown scorched edges which is what I had seen a lot here in the past.  My guess is that at that time there were other negatives adding to that and the eventual loss of leaves which were also eliminated once I changed out the soil and replanted.  So far I have not seen that at all since replanting and with the additional increase in potassium.

Also I have noticed that blooms from others such as yourself tend to be much more intense in color.  I'm thinking that could be a combination of warmer temps and more potassium than what mine were getting.  So let's see this year if I get some richer colors in my blooms.

One thing to keep in mind for you is the incredible heat factor you have their in Vietnam.  I'm sure your plants are sucking in water and whatever you add to it at very high rates unlike here where the weather and temps are much more moderate.  I can see how easily you can get burn in your plants compared to me where I probably have a much wider range of how much I can push my plants with the level of ferts I give them.  Though I don't believe it is the potassium that is specifically causing your plants in the past to get burn.

I know we both use Quelant-K (me for the salt free potassium) though I add it to my weekly water feeding sessions where you were using it as a foliar spray (not sure if you still are).  Maybe foliar spraying of potassium can cause burning?  I have no idea on that one...

Very interesting...

Farmer D

  

[farmer d]

The blooms have been slow to come by lately and as you can see when blooms like Flirtatious are lasting 12 days and still looking great things are definitely in super slow mode for sure.  I figure with the solstice now 2 weeks behind us and with the 2-3 week effect lag on the hibs things should start to pick up now.

I am starting to see quite a few buds on many plants so very encouraging.

Cosmic Gold to me really looks it's best in winter.  Those deep colors really come out and boy does this cv have incredible form on all blooms even this time of year.  The older bloom below is an 8 day super fade special - it is pretty much white now with just some orange left on the edges.  Again this plant has been growing non stop all winter so far and budding up constantly.  Very happy with her!

Farmer D

[LBJ]

Looks like things are going well in the greenhouse...plants blooming all the time even though outside temps have been down in the teens-20's lately.  I should have put up a greenhouse long ago.  Our Ex Tiffany Treasure has some beautiful colors in it.

[davidwood]

David my understanding has been that you don't get burn from potassium.  Maybe from high levels of other items that are combined with a potassium supplement for instance like salt or nitrogen.  

My increase in potassium is motivated by the goal of producing much more lush and full plants that are much less affected by stress.  The natural soil here is such a heavy clay with poor structure I am suspecting it was inhibiting the plant's ability to properly take in potassium as the roots had somewhat penetrated beyond the confines of the original holes I dug and into the clay.  I've read that signs of potassium deficiency shows in mature leaves as yellowing edges or brown scorched edges which is what I had seen a lot here in the past.  My guess is that at that time there were other negatives adding to that and the eventual loss of leaves which were also eliminated once I changed out the soil and replanted.  So far I have not seen that at all since replanting and with the additional increase in potassium.

Also I have noticed that blooms from others such as yourself tend to be much more intense in color.  I'm thinking that could be a combination of warmer temps and more potassium than what mine were getting.  So let's see this year if I get some richer colors in my blooms.

One thing to keep in mind for you is the incredible heat factor you have their in Vietnam.  I'm sure your plants are sucking in water and whatever you add to it at very high rates unlike here where the weather and temps are much more moderate.  I can see how easily you can get burn in your plants compared to me where I probably have a much wider range of how much I can push my plants with the level of ferts I give them.  Though I don't believe it is the potassium that is specifically causing your plants in the past to get burn.

I know we both use Quelant-K (me for the salt free potassium) though I add it to my weekly water feeding sessions where you were using it as a foliar spray (not sure if you still are).  Maybe foliar spraying of potassium can cause burning?  I have no idea on that one...

Very interesting...

Farmer D

  

Thanks Darren, its rainy season here now so I got stuck into a load of research yesterday and it looks like it’s a build up of Nitrogen in the potting mix that’s causing my burning.
Like you said even with small amounts each gallon there are a lot of gallons with this heat.

So what I plan to do for a few months is just foliar feed the fert once a week and see what happens, I will also switch the Quelant K to a drench rather than a spray, not that I think the spray was harmful but I have read that its difficult to give the plant enough Potassium and Nitrogen by spraying. Will see what happens and let you know.

[LJG]

Darren, you seem to have a good handle on proper plant nutrition. Personally I feel that potassium is the most important major to not go deficient in. Running higher levels of potassium (water soluble - not granular) in my fertigation systems has yielded great results from the past experiences of using a high N, low P and low/mid K ratio. Where you really see the results are during Santa Ana's and in winter when plants are under the most stress. They stay greener and on borderline tropical's, you see much less leaf desiccation. Most of us in SoCal with Hibiscus in the ground will see the benefits of healthy plants when this week's cold event hits. Frost (radiational freeze) damage will certainly be limited compared to those not using a heavy diet of potassium in their fertilization regiment.

Another great gardening gem is Dolomitic lime. Have you ever used it to amend your soil? It is the best soil amendment around IMHO - even if you don't have acidic soil like most clay soils do not.

On Nitrogen, a lot of people do not realize that all that biomass or extra green growth comes with a price. Over doing nitrogen leads to plant cell walls becoming thin which leads to weaker plant structure and an increase in insect and disease problems. It has become such a norm to want to grow things fast and green them up that high N level ferts can be found everywhere and are used in abundance in landscapes. Basically ratio's made for turf get used for planter beds too. Ideally I believe you should work to an equal mid range ratio with N + K with P half or 2/3 less in the mix ratio. I like 3:1:3 ratio's with minors. I run a 15:5:15 for example. But this is mostly because my soil is DG. People in FL have different requirements for example.

[Ernest]

Len, thanks for the tip on Dolomitic lime.
Darren, where do you get your Quelant-K?

Erny

[davidwood]

Darren, you seem to have a good handle on proper plant nutrition. Personally I feel that potassium is the most important major to not go deficient in. Running higher levels of potassium (water soluble - not granular) in my fertigation systems has yielded great results from the past experiences of using a high N, low P and low/mid K ratio. Where you really see the results are during Santa Ana's and in winter when plants are under the most stress. They stay greener and on borderline tropical's, you see much less leaf desiccation. Most of us in SoCal with Hibiscus in the ground will see the benefits of healthy plants when this week's cold event hits. Frost (radiational freeze) damage will certainly be limited compared to those not using a heavy diet of potassium in their fertilization regiment.

Another great gardening gem is Dolomitic lime. Have you ever used it to amend your soil? It is the best soil amendment around IMHO - even if you don't have acidic soil like most clay soils do not.

On Nitrogen, a lot of people do not realize that all that biomass or extra green growth comes with a price. Over doing nitrogen leads to plant cell walls becoming thin which leads to weaker plant structure and an increase in insect and disease problems. It has become such a norm to want to grow things fast and green them up that high N level ferts can be found everywhere and are used in abundance in landscapes. Basically ratio's made for turf get used for planter beds too. Ideally I believe you should work to an equal mid range ratio with N + K with P half or 2/3 less in the mix ratio. I like 3:1:3 ratio's with minors. I run a 15:5:15 for example. But this is mostly because my soil is DG. People in FL have different requirements for example.

Thanks Len, a good read that. I for sure seem to have been giving to much Nitrogen and am getting all what you describe plus quite a bit of burning. In my defense I certainly was not trying to do it, but adding half a teaspoon to each watering still means they get a lot as I have to give a lot of water. I have decided to go down the foliar spray route for a few months to see if I can alter things.

[farmer d]

Len I greatly appreciate your further breakdown of potassium and nitrogen effects.  I think that I am slowly coming to the same conclusion regarding potassium.  As I continue to spray Supernova constantly I more often find myself doing it to relieve the stress from those really cold nights and windy/dry days.  Of course I still hope it is a win-win as I will also see more blooms but the priority for me is to protect my plants best I can and that for me starts with SN spraying and higher levels of potassium.  My main goal during winter is to keep all my hibs in grow mode which so far has been the case.  I don't want any lost time due to the plants shutting down.

David I hate to say this but I think you are in one of the most stressful growing situations as whatever you do to your plants is magnified a lot.  I like the idea of going to a drench with the quelant-k, just be really careful with how much you start off with and gradually increase every few weeks as you see fit.

If it is any consolation I think I am starting to see some nitrogen burn in a couple of my potted plants so I will back off on the special blend for a little while for the potted ones.  Interestingly I have also seen a lot of aphids and white flies so far this winter which I had not seen during the last two winters.  I wonder if now that my plants are doing much better in their new digs that they are increasing their uptake of a lot more nutrients including nitrogen thus an increased vulnerability to pests?  Also I don't want my plants growing to quickly and getting that tall, lanky look so another factor to keep in mind when thinking about too much nitrogen.

As for the dolomitic lime I have not ever used it though remember reading about it here maybe last year or so.  I am thinking that my new soil should have everything in it I want and more so I won't need to amend it hopefully for some time.  I haven't tested my new soil for acidity levels which knowing myself won't happen until I see some unexplained problems down the line. 

So much to learn still but it feels great to see some really nice results.  This forum is doing exactly what it should be doing - what a great asset.  Thank you again Charlie!

Farmer D

[Rebecca]

My first bloom out of my 8 plants I have solar soul what a beauty

[farmer d]

Rebecca that is one pretty bloom!  So glad to have you posting here with us - welcome!!

Yikes I just checked the weather forecast and it will be near freezing Saturday morning.  Len you weren't kidding when you mentioned this upcoming weather system.  Heads up So Cal!

Farmer D

[LJG]

@ David, I was not referring to you Like Darren said, you live in a tough climate which is counterintuitive really. I have rare plant collector friends all over the world. The ones in the tropics do not grow hybrid hibiscus because of the effort it takes to grow them and protect them. It seems the push to produce beauty has weakened the plant to where I doubt hybrid hibiscus could live outside a cultivated environment.

@ Darren, Dolomitic Lime while a soil amendment it is a great organic fertilizer. It provides two very important minors to plants. Magnesium and Calcium. Magnesium is essential for photosynthesis and Calcium is key in plant cell wall structure and building a stronger plant. I add it each Spring. The stuff is cheap at Home Depot and you do not need a lot since you are not wanting to change your pH.

[LJG]

Rebecca that is one pretty bloom!  So glad to have you posting here with us - welcome!!

Yikes I just checked the weather forecast and it will be near freezing Saturday morning.  Len you weren't kidding when you mentioned this upcoming weather system.  Heads up So Cal!

Farmer D

I live in Vista and I show 4 nights in a row at 33-32. I am a degree or two warmer than what actuals show as I am up in elevation, but it will still be cold and freezing for many.

[davidwood]

@ David, I was not referring to you Like Darren said, you live in a tough climate which is counterintuitive really. I have rare plant collector friends all over the world. The ones in the tropics do not grow hybrid hibiscus because of the effort it takes to grow them and protect them. It seems the push to produce beauty has weakened the plant to where I doubt hybrid hibiscus could live outside a cultivated environment.

@ Darren, Dolomitic Lime while a soil amendment it is a great organic fertilizer. It provides two very important minors to plants. Magnesium and Calcium. Magnesium is essential for photosynthesis and Calcium is key in plant cell wall structure and building a stronger plant. I add it each Spring. The stuff is cheap at Home Depot and you do not need a lot since you are not wanting to change your pH.

I am sure you are right when you say hybrid hibiscus could not live outside a cultivated environment here, its way to hot. Fortunately I have little to do other than look after my garden so they have a good chance, does sometimes feel its one step forward and 2 steps back mind but I suppose if it was easy I would get bored.

Just about perfect now for my Hibs [coldest night of the year last night 71f] and my camera has broken, will get another soon and have some nice pictures to post.