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Author Topic: Planning for winter, What are we going to do?  (Read 27921 times)
jpiper82

Posts: 178


« on: September 15, 2009, 11:00:02 AM »

Planning for Winter when it Freezes!

For those of us who live in the parts of the country that have to have a plan for taking care of their Hibiscus during the winter months, and yet bring them back outside next spring and reaping the rewards of successfully wintering or hibernating  I think we should share strategies on how to be successful .

The situation:  I have a longer growing season in Texas than some folks do who live up north and we all will have a different plan, or maybe we don’t. Sharing your plan would help us all as we pick up tips that we may not have thought of to be successful in our winter programs.

My situation:  Oh! If I only had a greenhouse!  Well I don’t so here we go.
Our average growing season is from April 15th to November 15th before the first frost.  I call November 15th the “Pull or Panic” time.  We sure don’t want to be doing something else when the first frost comes, and lose our Hibiscus that have given us so much pleasure and challenges this year.

I will pull all of my Bridal Path from their planter boxes and repot them for life in the garage thru winter. I have four plants two in each planter boxes that will probably be 3 foot tall by Nov 15th.  Based on the fact that they are not contained in pots I assume they will have large root growth that like last year and will be have to be pruned back for the containers I will put them in.   ( last year I had root growth throughout the planters) .  I am not sure about pruning the plants at this time or in the spring, will have to figure that one out.  I am going to put them in 9” high by 10” plastic pots for the winter. My “Magic Moments “are already in pots and should be ok.

Winter environment:  The “Garage” I have a 2 ˝ car garage that is 27’w by 22’d by 11’h. It is fully insulated along with a insulated garage door.  It is lighted by 2 double 8’ fluorescent bulbs, along with 4, 2’ fluorescent fixtures in my work area.  The floor is insulated concrete 6” thick.  Average temperature of the floor in winter is 55deg.  All those numbers are good for the average winter.  However it is not “Heated”.

Lighting:  As described above I have fluorescents that give me plenty of light in the winter, but I don’t know if it is enough for my Hibs.  I looked into changing over to T5 fluorescents and the cost is prohibitive for the whole area we are talking about here.  So I am going to go with what I have even if I run them 24/7.

The TEXAS freeze from Hell!  The backup plan: I have an infrared temperature gun that will help me monitor temperatures.
OK I am concerned about it really getting cold: I have two cars in the garage that I will back outside, warm their engines up nice and warm and put them back inside shut them off and let the heat from the engines warm the garage up. That should be good for 15 deg. In the short term.

Now it is going to Freeze for a while:  I have already gone to Home Depot and bought a 36” roll of heavy duty paper that builders use to protect flooring in a house when they are building homes. Going to roll it out inside the house and bring them all in till the temperatures get back to winter normal.  (I may have some aggravation form the wife on that one.)

That should cover temperature problems in North Texas.

Winter Feeding Program; If I understand all the information on the Forum adjustments should be made in terms of how wet we keep our plants, and the fertilization program we use.  It is my understanding that we should keep the plants drier but still moist during this period of time.  I use several additives to enhance growth and plant health, because my plants were so young when I got them.  Having all of them on them on “steroids” (I hate to use this term but it is true) I think we need to rethink that for wintering.  I plan on reducing watering and fertilization to just keep the plants damp but not like summer wet.

The In and Out Program:  Well this is something only the folks who love in moderate climates can achieve.  Our Hibs love sunlight, and do better when they can have some.  In my case that would be when the daytime temperatures are a minimum of 55 deg, and the daytime highs are going to reach 65-70 deg. That means I have to get them all back inside before sundown. Because you never know what is going to happen that night.

All of this will be worth it, if I can improve the wintering program for my Hib’s.

I and I am sure others would love to hear what your program will be.

 I would love to hear what Bart is going to do with his collection!


John

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Nievesgirl

Posts: 975


« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2009, 02:16:53 PM »

Hello John ,

Well if you read my thread in the hibiscus stories section you can see I have to winter my hibiscus too. I know I live in so CA but since my balcony has not enough light in the fall and winter my growing season is short. If I were in a house I would probably have the same length of growing period as you april - nov.

I have 2 22" new wave fixtures with 2 bulbs. And 1 24" fixture with 4 bulbs. So far these fixtures are doing the job. I got them used on ebay for a great price. I should be selling my tank soon so I will be able to start my set up. I think that these 3 fixtures are probably enough and I do not need to buy the 48" 8 bulb fixture.  How many plants will you be wintering ? I bet you could get away with using 1 24" 4 bulb fixture for all of them.

I have 8 cv's I am lighting with all three lights. I honestly think just the 24" is enough but since I do not have them hanging I have been using all three of the fixture standing up on their sides Tongue

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~Kerry~
Charlie
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 08:15:04 AM »

Last I heard Bart was scratching his head and thinking about what to do over winter.

John, I think your program will work pretty well. Some hidden problems that you might also consider are:

Condensation - can be heavy during winter and water on the leaves can be the start of some problems. Same for flowers that are allowed to rot on the plant after blooming. The spent flowers should be removed from the plant and thrown away. If it is feasible you could run a fan pointed at the hibiscus during the night. First watch and see how wet they are when you see them in the mornings.

Cold tap water - some areas or houses can have quite cold tap water coming out of the hose. When you water do it midday when the water is warmest or find another way to make the irrigation water lukewarm before putting it on the plants.

You get more light onto the hibiscus the closer they are to the lamps. Placing them on plastic tables or a bench made from concrete blocks and wood is an easy way to increase the light they receive and to avoid cold drafts or air pockets that sometimes are found at floor level. You can find graphs online that show the dramatic increase of light for every foot closer to the light source the plants are.

I'm sure we will think of more as we continue to consider the problem of overwintering.

Charlie
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Charlie
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 08:19:44 AM »

Hi Kerry,

Standing the lights on their sides is not a bad idea. That method gets more light to the lower leaves and might result in an overall total of light that is higher than hanging them. Since your plants will be indoors and enjoying the balmy temps I think they will be just fine.

Charlie
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Nievesgirl

Posts: 975


« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 10:02:05 AM »

Hi Kerry,

Standing the lights on their sides is not a bad idea. That method gets more light to the lower leaves and might result in an overall total of light that is higher than hanging them. Since your plants will be indoors and enjoying the balmy temps I think they will be just fine.

Charlie

Ok I was not sure if it was ok to do this. I will probably hang them when I get more room but maybe I will leave on on its side so it can hit the lower leaves like you said.

John I also have another idea for you and you lights if you do not want to get t5's yet I agree with Charlie when he said put lights closer to your plants. The lights I have are like 5-6" away for my plants some plants are about 3-4" I have them in a circle lol.

But my idea is build a little grow box and used this to cover the sides



The relecting film will increase your lighting output.


I will probably build one myself. I want to see and experiment with artifical lighting with hibiscus since there is little information out there about hibiscus under grow lights.


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~Kerry~
Bart

Posts: 26


« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 09:01:19 PM »

Well John,
Charlie is absolutely correct about me still scratching my head over this one. Winter here in KY can be devastating.  Already, The temps here for the last two nights have been 45 and 41 degrees. I brought my smaller plants in both nights. I figured the larger ones could handle that for a couple of short hours each night.  I have a cheap, and I do mean cheap, small 10' X 10' greenhouse (for lack of a better term), my wife purchased for me from Walmart. I actually think it would work fine in your area as i don't think you get too many sub 20 degree nights (I could be mistaken).  As Charlie knows, I battled freeze on more then one occasion last winter, lost 5 of ten pants and the cost of heating was about 23 dollars each sub 35 degree night. To make things worse, I would set the alarm for every two hours just to wake and check the temps because the gas heater I was using would turn itself off if it somehow determined there was not sufficient oxygen in the house to sustain life or even worse...I would occasionally let myself run out of gas and have to get up and run to the Minit Mart to get a Small tank of LP...What a winter!!!
 
Now in saying all of that, I still have the greenhouse sitting in place.  I have talked to Charlie a bit about some options and I may end up wrapping it in another layer of plastic with some air space between layers for added insulation.  I still have the heat and condensation Problem (I didn't mention that one earlier) so I am trying to figure that one out.  For now, I will continue bringing them in and out throughout the fall. Unfortunately in KY, we are almost a two season state-Hot, Humid summer and freezing cold winter.

I fortunately do have one other option I am considering. My primary office is in Bowling Green, KY which is about 20 miles from home. I am in a business (Dir. of Ops. for a large Material Handling company) that causes me to travel some however; that office has a showroom surrounded by windows. I would consider moving the plants to the office this winter. The would get plenty of Sunlight and stay warm. I would worry some about them while traveling and I would have to go to BG on the weekends if the weather was going to be sunny as they would probably need water.  My other alternative is moving all 11 plants, 5 of them very large, purchase some good growing lights (I haven't researched them yet but Kerry seems to be on the right path), and then see if I am still married at the end of 'winter.  Our home is not one with lots of large windows so I would have to empty out the corner of my son's old room, (he just graduated college and is playing Professional music for Rhonda Vincent and the Rage (unless you like Bluegrass Music, you may not know her but you may have heard of Ricky Skaggs who he played for last year, sorry about getting off track there) and he has purchased a new home in Nashville. My 15 year old may not like that one as he has turned Ben's room into his own music room but..."Hibs First" is the rule around here.

I am certain this has not helped at all and I am sorry for that. I think I have picked a very difficult but rewarding hobby that is only going to grow even more difficult as the farm gets larger. I will certainly keep you posted if I figure out my greenhouse option as that is what I would like to do.  I need the plants close by in case they need something!!!

Bart
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jpiper82

Posts: 178


« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2009, 12:15:02 PM »

Bart, We are so similar!  I have already raised two son "Musicians" all who love and have passion for their music, Both have awesome home studios and can do what ever they want with their music.  We could talk about this in a different forum, but we have had a great life together!

Maybe you would consider starting a thread, Like Winter in KY and Texas with our Hib's, and I would respond in kind. I think Lot's of folks would love to see our journey!

Best Regards,
John
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Bart

Posts: 26


« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 11:26:57 PM »

John,
That sounds great, My battery is running down right now. Hopefully this weekend I can post some pics and we'll try to get something started as I know I would be interested. We are facing some tough times ahead and we have to do something...right or wrong.  Talk to you soon and I would like to discuss some music stuff somehow sonn!

Bart
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jpiper82

Posts: 178


« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 02:24:13 PM »

Bart, E-mail me @ jpiper82@Gmail. com
John
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jpiper82

Posts: 178


« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 09:43:27 AM »

I thought I would share with you my winter garage pics, along with my repotting of the latest cv's I just received from HVH, They are Voodoo Magic and Irene Collins. They are 4" plants that I want to grow over the winter and then put out in the spring.
John


* 4 inch Voodoo Magic and Irene Collins repotted to 6 inch pots.JPG (158.93 KB, 640x480 - viewed 938 times.)

* Voodoo Magic and Irene Collins Winter Home.JPG (157.28 KB, 640x480 - viewed 942 times.)

* Garage work area.JPG (155.58 KB, 640x480 - viewed 926 times.)

* Another view.JPG (141.53 KB, 640x480 - viewed 962 times.)
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Charlie
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 03:33:08 AM »

Thanks for showing those photos, John. It looks like you have several good places to grow the young plants over the winter. I was imagining your 8' fluorescent lights as being in the ceiling and the plants being on the floor of the garage. Although that would work, your actual setup that brings the lights a lot closer to the plants will provide a lot more light for them and should do even better.

Charlie
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Darkhorse

Posts: 949



« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 10:40:58 AM »

My plan for winter:  I didn't plan on still living here over the winter, but it looks like I will be here for at least part of it.  Long enough to bring my plants in, at least.  I have two windows in my apt.  One in the bedroom, and one sliding glass door out to the balcony.  I still have some plants outside as it has yet to get below 50 here and I'm still fighting the mites.  I actually left a few of my bigger plants out in the storm yesterday while keeping an eye on them, hoping to get rid of the last of the mites in my outdoor group.  Everyone outside survived the wind and rain undamaged!

Anyway, I will be bringing them all in once I'm sure there's no more mites and keeping them all in the bedroom with the door closed.  I hope they can get enough light from my one window. 
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"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."  -Edgar Allan Poe
Charlie
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 03:10:00 PM »

Good plan, Jordan! I bet it will be enough light to keep them green. If not, you could get one of those moveable closet racks and instead of hanging clothes on it attach a fluorescent light to it and set the thing directly over the plants. Try it first without any extra light and see how they do. One thing - the mites won't like the darker conditions. I sure hope you get rid of them this time!

Charlie
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Bart

Posts: 26


« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2009, 10:30:16 PM »

Well Guys, I decided to try something on a temporary basis but I think I'm going to like it well enough to make it work and keep the plants at home with me. I built a 10' X 12' frame in my 30' X36' garage. I hung a tarp over the top and wrap the sides with Plastic, only 2 mil right now.  I manage to stuff the larger plants inside (before Pruning) and set up a table for my younger exotics. I hung Grow bulbs over the top ( the blue flood lamp type you get from Home Depot). I also place a 40,000 BTU small gas Heater inside.  Once I used this to get me through a couple of cold 30 degree nights I have decided I am going to make it permanent for the winter. I am going to use Styrofoam sides in place of the plastic and have found two large 3' X 84" pieces of double paned glass. the West side ofe the garage (the side the frame is built against) will be perfect for evening sun so I am going to frame the glass into the side of the garage. I will now have windows in the garage in the summer as it will come down in the summer.

Now, If I can determine the correct Grow lights to hang, I think I am set. What do you guys think? I hope it works well enough so that I can go ahead and prune and get good growth throughout the winter. 
Drawback...I have now got to find a place for my 28' travel trailer.

Bart
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Charlie
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 06:12:00 AM »

Hey Bart, I just saw this new plan. It sound really good. The styrofoam wall is creative - should provide a lot of insulation and save a lot on energy costs. A small fan would be a good idea, too, since you could get temperature layers in there that the wind from a fan would break up. A closed space also results in a lot of humidity and condensation that can bring fungus disease to the plants. A fan is helpful with that problem.

For lighting anything is better than nothing. There are a lot of alternatives with cost being the big variable. If you have time check out some hydroponics web sites and you will see a lot of the lights used by hydro growers. You can also use regular 8' fluorescent lights from Home Depot.

I can sense some excitement about this project. Let us know how it goes!

Charlie
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