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Author Topic: March flower photos of the day  (Read 127641 times)
Darkhorse

Posts: 949



« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2012, 11:09:37 PM »

I wanted to chime in and say I agree with Chris on the consistency.  I've found through my limited experimentation that even when a plant is in an undesirable environment, consistency is key in its health.  Hibiscus seem to adapt well to less-than-desirable conditions if the change is made over a period of time.  I've actually lost plants by taking them from a stressful environment to an ideal environment too quickly.  Most notably this winter, I brought some struggling plants indoors from the cold-at-night greenhouse that I have and moved them into a warm, sunny window in one of my bedrooms.  They promptly shed all their remaining leaves and some died.  I only brought in my most unhealthy plants, so I'm sure their condition contributed to their reaction to the sudden change.  Nonetheless, I wonder if they'd still be alive (unhappy, but alive) had I left them out in the gh.


Oh, and Kristen, beautiful Laguna Starlight!  And David--  WOW on the Acapulco Gold!  I hope mine will bloom like that as it gets larger!

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"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."  -Edgar Allan Poe
davidwood
David In Nha Trang Vietnam

Posts: 1054



« Reply #91 on: March 14, 2012, 03:11:41 AM »

Louis if any of my seedlings are half as good as your I will be overjoyed, at the moment they are just staring at me doing nothing, they haven't grown a millimeter this week, difficult to believe that a 4 inch weedy looking thing is getting so much of my attention and may bring me so much pleasure.

P's Purple coming into bloom, doesn't look much on its own but in that corner with everything filling out it looks quite nice.


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David.
Charlie
Administrator
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Posts: 3646



« Reply #92 on: March 14, 2012, 04:48:24 AM »

Kristen, thanks for showing the darker version of Laguna Starlight. That seems to be a trait it inherited from parent Key Largo, which can also be lighter or darker. This darker version is a nice surprise for both of us!

Charlie
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Charlie
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Posts: 3646



« Reply #93 on: March 14, 2012, 05:16:30 AM »


  This seems to be evidence that your high bloom count earlier in the year was due to atypical weather, seeing as that is the only variable that has changed for you.

I don't think that is the right way to interpret Darren's experience. Sure, there are winter conditions that will stop hibiscus from blooming or growing no matter what you do. There may also be a cumulative effect that will do the same thing. But, and its a significant but, Darren also showed that continued growth and enormous bud counts can be had in conditions that are wintry but not so severe if the plants are treated the way he treated them. Nobody else in southern California or TX or FL was having 20 flowers on 2 year old plants in January and Feb. That was no accident.

It would be unfortunate to dismiss those documented results by concluding that the winter was so mild it was bound to happen. The weather was plenty cold enough in southern CA to slow down or stop hibiscus growth and blooming this winter. It may have been slightly warmer but the days were just as short and the negative effect on hibiscus not treated as Darren did was in evidence everywhere I looked in the southland.

My point is that that we should not discount the possibilities to improve winter growing of hibiscus. This is the first, and rather dramatic, time I have seen anyone have such results in the continental US with growing hibiscus in Jan or Feb. It suggests that we can intervene with winter setbacks even if there are limits to how cold it can get and still obtain results.

Darren, even if your hibiscus are not now blooming their heads off, they are still in much better condition than they were at the end of last winter, right? A winter in which you did not spray the Supernova the way you did this year.

Charlie
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helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #94 on: March 14, 2012, 08:20:40 AM »

As I have said, overuse of products and promotion of their use beyond their absorption rate is not going to help anyone understand the underlying reason for good or poor growth during specific weather conditions.  IF the weather is not warm or conductive to growing, then application of any product, supernova or fertilizer, is going to have minimal or no effect if it is not being absorbed.  

You can think of the analogy of a chemical inhibitor where a compound blocks the attachment of another, negating its effect.  This same idea can be applied to application of supernova during cold weather, if the plant is not growing then it is not going to absorb to active ingredients that would stimulate growth.  I enjoy discussing different aspects of growing hibiscus, but in this case it seems we will not see eye to eye.   Agree to disagree Wink
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Charlie
Administrator
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Posts: 3646



« Reply #95 on: March 14, 2012, 11:16:55 AM »

OK, but I don't disagree with your major point - if there is no absorption there will be no effect. That is also why gibberellic acid (HVH Wake Up spray) does not do nearly as much to stimulate plants that have lost all their leaves as it does plants that still have leaves. Absorption is much better through the leaves than through the bark.

Whether Darren overused or found just the right amount of Super Nova for hibiscus in winter is an open question but not the most important question. The dosage can always be fine tuned, the real question is whether some amount still to be determined can help hibiscus overcome some degree of winter cold (amount of cold still to be determined). His results certainly suggest the answer is yes, some amount can help overcome some degree of cold.

Another important unanswered question is exactly at what point are hibiscus able to absorb and use the nutrients/hormones that are sprayed on their leaves. William of Zoe's Tropicals in Florida (out of business since William died)  was unapologetic about using growth stimulating and regulating products when growing his hibiscus. By many accounts, he produced some of the best looking hibiscus to hit the commercial market, all in 2 gallon pots. In an old email to me he wrote that he used a cocktail of gibberellic acid plus another product similar to Supernova (derived from the same algae) to, as he said, "break dormancy" of his plants at the end of winter. This implies they were not actively growing until after he applied the chemicals but obviously must have been able to absorb and use them. His place was in the far south tip of Florida and arguably was warm enough for the hibiscus to never really stop growing but he felt the need to "break dormancy" anyway and was fully convinced of the usefulness of spraying these substances.

Anyway, there is not enough information yet to draw anything near to a final conclusion and I hope some others here and there will experiment with their plants and provide more feedback. In particular people with unheated or minimally heated greenhouses that prevent freezing but still have colder than desirable nights could provide some good input. I doubt any approach calling for almost daily applications of spray will become widespread because it is too labor and time intensive for most, but this is a whole new area that deserves to be fully explored just to see what can be learned. And, I have to add, it may not be necessary to spray daily - once or twice per week may be enough and that is not too much of a burden to try out. It's actually what we do in the HVH greenhouse on all the 4 and 6 inch pots we grow. We use the recommended label dose once per week.

Darren, I'm not sure what you plan to do next winter but if you go forward with a similar program or some variation it will be interesting to see the results for a second winter.

Charlie
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farmer d
Farmer D

Posts: 5573


Hollywood, CA


« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2012, 12:13:40 PM »

First off let me start by stating I respect everyone's opinions and only want to relay what I am seeing here so that in hopes it might make others try new things that could help them achieve results they haven't had before.

I agree that I do spray a lot - at least 4 to 5 times a week weather permitting.  The reason for this is that if you start on the other side of things and add little by little during fall-winter you might miss your chance to see an effect on your plants and then it is too late when not using enough and they shut down for the winter.  Can't have that happen so you have to take your best guess on the stronger side using all the info available to you to make that call.  Yes it is faith based on one side but it is also full of a lot of thought and logic again using all available info at my disposal.  That is how I see someone finding the means to break out of the box which in this case is the mindset that you just have to wait from Dec - Mar before you can enjoy your hibiscus to bloom abundantly.

OK, with that being said I am going to now show you what I am seeing.  

First are the few plants that have stopped growing and what it looks like.  This is what I saw last year with all of my plants.

Here is my Bon Temps which I got back in the beginning (4/2010).  It was replanted recently and shut down all new growth.  A perfect example of what I saw last year with all my plants.


Next is shots from two plants that are on the smaller side that stopped growing a long time ago due to being much smaller in size.  Even with the spraying it wasn't enough to keep them awake.  I only have a few like this currently.

Legendary Pleasures - a small little one


Tahitian Lion Queen




This was what I saw everywhere last year with my plants.  Branch tips that just browned and given up until some later day to reawaken.

Now for the vast majority of my plants they are all still growing.   The growth is not explosive which is what I was hoping for by this point but it is solid none the less.  There is no way my hibiscus could be doing this now without my spraying Supernova.  I have plants of all sizes still growing all the way down to my little Hot Southern Nights that I got as a 4" in late fall.

HSN - doing well with it's first buds in mid winter


Simple Pleasures - a dinky little plant that has been growing nicely all winter long


High Voltage - medium sized plant never stopped growing all winter long


Valentines Day - Has grown rather strongly all winter long (both of them)


Vin Beaujolais - probably grew the most during winter - very impressive


Rise and Shine - has grown a lot as well during winter


Acapulco Gold - there is no way I would have this ridiculous amount of buds up and down the branches at the end of winter without spraying.  It is amazing and I want to know if anyone else out there has such results?


Black Dream - same thing = buds all up and down the branches.  I don't know if I mentioned this last week but I had 28 open buds (weren't the prettiest but it happened) at one time in the middle of this colder stretch for So Cal.  Again how can that happen without the spraying???


Chariots of Fire - still going strong with the most growth down low which is where I want it to fill out after last year's spider mite attack.


Bonnie Lass - now this is an interesting case.  It had leaves up until two weeks ago when I added chelated iron and watered a little.  It hated it (always has been sensitive to watering - again soil issues here) and it dropped all it's leaves in a matter of days.  What is good is that unlike last year it is still growing the whole time and immediately new leaves formed as well as the growth in the branch tips is still going on.




All these pics were taken just 1/2 hour ago.  I might be partly to blame if I made it sound like my plants had stopped growing.  They haven't - just that I am looking for that explosive spring growth which started in late Jan but slowed down to what I am showing you now.  A steady and slower growth but enough to keep all the blooms coming even if they aren't always the prettiest blooms.

So this is what I am seeing.  Based upon these results I have to conclude that the plants are still able to absorb the Supernova even when the weather is cold or swinging back and forth a lot.

My thinking for next winter is to spray the more mature ones a lot less if at all and spray the rest like I have this winter.  The sprayer has been a life saver as I can do all my plants in about 1/2 hour.

Farmer D
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Darkhorse

Posts: 949



« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2012, 12:43:22 PM »

I'm wondering if it may be possible that absorption rate can increase over time if the plant is constantly sprayed, much like a person's metabolism increases over time if they constantly load up on calories.
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"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."  -Edgar Allan Poe
Ernest

Posts: 1704


« Reply #98 on: March 14, 2012, 12:50:27 PM »

Good discussion. I have been spraying my plants in the ground once or twice each week with a combination of Supernova, HVH Special Blend, and Booster. They also get some Special Blend and Booster through a drip system on a daily basis. I have noted steady growth on most throughout the winter but the blooms have been disappointing--small, reluctant to open, and a fair amount of bud drop. The plants I have in pots awaiting planting in the ground this spring have received more frequent spraying with Supernova (x3-4/week) and exhibiting good growth but I have also been bringing them into the house each night. I don't know that this helps advance the discussion but I thought I might as well throw my two cents in.

On another topic, Darren, my 9 gallon sprayer stopped working after using it only 4 or 5 times. I thought it was a bad battery but spoke to a guy at the manufacturer and he said he thought it was the pump. He sent me a pump and now it works fine. Hopefully it was just a freak event and not something I was doing. Anyway, they were very helpful and replaced the pump promptly without question. Should you have any trouble call 800 864-1649 and ask for Adam; he's the guy who handles problems and this way you can reach him directly without going through a bunch of other people first.


Erny
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davidwood
David In Nha Trang Vietnam

Posts: 1054



« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2012, 04:42:47 PM »

Darren leaving the winter growth and the Supernova spraying aside a moment can I ask you a question, did you ever wonder why you where getting such phenomenal results with you hibs, I remember when you first came on here and was showing Chariots of Fire, it was amazing, I had never seen anything like it and you must have thought about it, like what am I doing different to everyone else,why are mine so much better and remember at this point you weren't massively spraying with Supernova, this came later when I wrote about the good affects it had when pruning.
Personally I think you do yourself an injustice by giving to much credit to Supernova, you where perhaps way ahead of us all before you started using it, no doubt it is a big help but the care and attention you give your Hibs and some green magic in the ground are playing a far bigger part.
I am very confident in saying and I think most would agree that if you gave a thousand Hib growers a gallon of Supernova and a Valentines Day plant in 2 years time none would hold a candle to yours.
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David.
Yashodhara
S.E. Michigan

Posts: 306



« Reply #100 on: March 14, 2012, 04:59:39 PM »

Another new bloomer for me - "Rodeo Drive"

RD probably wanted to bloom fast and experience the "winter-straight-to-summer" weather we're having here in S.E. Michigan today (it's 8:00 PM and 72ºF), so we had our photo shoot outside Grin


As per the other discussion (growth enhancers)...
My hibiscus have already let me know that they don't care what I do to perk them up or try to make them happy; they're going to give me grief until we all move to Maui (or atleast Malibu).
 Wink


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davidwood
David In Nha Trang Vietnam

Posts: 1054



« Reply #101 on: March 14, 2012, 05:06:17 PM »

As per the other discussion (growth enhancers)...
My hibiscus have already let me know that they don't care what I do to perk them up or try to make them happy; they're going to give me grief until we all move to Maui (or atleast Malibu).[/i]  Wink
[/quote]
Haha, any excuse Deb, you just want to be by the beach, Rodeo Drive looks lovely.
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David.
Yashodhara
S.E. Michigan

Posts: 306



« Reply #102 on: March 14, 2012, 05:12:52 PM »

Haha, any excuse Deb, you just want to be by the beach, Rodeo Drive looks lovely.

Ummm... Yep (you got me there!)   Cool

Thanks David!
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blupit007

Posts: 960



« Reply #103 on: March 14, 2012, 08:24:29 PM »

Deb, great RD!
David, I forgot to say how much I LOVE your explosion of blooms you show!  It was a few pages back, but Im still thinking about it.  GREAT JOB!  And although Darren is a hibiscus god, you are quite the impressive green thumb as well.  

Here is day two photo of Laguna Starlight.  It flattened out nicely, I think yesterday's photo may have been almost immediately after it opened.  I took the photo outside today, one in the sun and one in the shade.  It is INCREDIBLE!  Charlie, Check it out!!


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-Kristen
Yashodhara
S.E. Michigan

Posts: 306



« Reply #104 on: March 14, 2012, 10:08:04 PM »

Wow Kristen... LS is a real beauty!!!  Shocked  The photo with your hand in it looks like a 10" bloom - LOL!
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