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Author Topic: Braveheart  (Read 13191 times)
helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« on: January 11, 2012, 11:24:46 PM »

Hi Charlie,

I know this one has been around for a while, but I havent seen too many pictures of it on the forum or just on the net in general.  I ended up ordering one last week as it is one that I have wanted on and off for a while.  Have you used this at all in hybridizing?  What are your thoughts about the growth habit of this one?  Thanks alot! 
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Charlie
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Posts: 3646



« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 04:50:14 AM »

Chris, I like the growth habit of Braveheart a lot. It grows some tall branches first and then those branches send out tons of side branches as the plant matures so that it becomes very full and capable of making lots of flowers. I'm not sure how it will do as an indoor plant in limited light but give it a big pot and some sun and it grows great.

We have 2 named seedlings using Braveheart so far, both crossed with Creme de Cacao as seed parent - Lionheart and Red Earth. It doesn't set seed well but makes lots of useful pollen. I'm continuing to use it because of the growth habit and colorful genes of its parents Muffin Man and Fifth Dimension.

Charlie
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helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 11:25:00 AM »

Thanks alot for those comments Charlie.  I really like those genes as well, muffin man is one of my favorites.  I am growing using t 5 lights which has worked out well so far, if Braveheart does not do well I also have greenhouse space I am renting, I can always keep it there Smiley.

Both those seedlings are quite nice, I will try it as a pollen parent only then!
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helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 01:57:55 PM »

I just harvested a pod off It's a Wonderful Life x Braveheart and it started thinking about what a nice CV Braveheart is. 

In my experience it is one of the most prolific bloomers in my collection, with flowers almost everyday, usually in multiples.  This is because each node on each stem starts sending out branches, which bud up, making for lots of blooms.  The bloom color has varied from mauve with beige tinge to dark claret and brown.  It produces copious pollen and I have been able to coax a few pods to form on it.  Time will tell if there are seeds inside, but I am hopeful!  Parents Muffin man and fifth dimension also open up alot of possibilities for spotted and ringed seedlings.

This has my thumbs up as a must have for those interested in a prolific CV in more unusual colors.     


* BH.JPG (196.85 KB, 634x640 - viewed 846 times.)

* BH2.JPG (179.03 KB, 572x640 - viewed 885 times.)

* BH 3.JPG (137.27 KB, 480x640 - viewed 850 times.)

* BHbush.JPG (142.23 KB, 480x640 - viewed 850 times.)
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Charlie
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 11:30:19 AM »

I look forward to seeing what you get, Chris. We took a year off from growing many Braveheart plants this year but should have more available in 2013.

Charlie
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helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »

Hi Charlie,

An update on those Braveheart seed pods and the verdict is... great parent!  I just harvested 25 and 33 seeds from two ripe pods off Braveheart. 

Braveheart x [M. Hot Charley x M. Baby Moon]
Braveheart x Green Elf

I have a few crossed to Fly me to the moon, which I am really hoping are full of seeds. 

Also a perfect Braveheart bloom today, a nice 7 inches too Smiley

 


* Braveheart.JPG (139.18 KB, 480x640 - viewed 856 times.)
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davidwood
David In Nha Trang Vietnam

Posts: 1054



« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 02:26:09 AM »

Hi Charlie,

An update on those Braveheart seed pods and the verdict is... great parent!  I just harvested 25 and 33 seeds from two ripe pods off Braveheart. 

Out of interest Chris, what will you do with all the seeds, do you plant say 3 from each pod and if they are nice plant more, I cant imagine you will grow all 58.
Asking a little as I have 30 seeds of Saffron x Cosmic Gold and not sure the best plan for them. I know you must have hundreds of seeds so how many do you plant from each pod. I know Charlie has said from each pod the plants can end up looking a lot different but I assume a lot could also look the same. Do you have some sort of system.
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David.
helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 10:05:30 AM »

Hi David,

I guess my answer would be, it depends.  If I have a bunch of seeds out of a cross I might grow a few myself and share the rest with friends.  

If a cross is something I think would be particularly good, I will grow all the seeds myself.  For example I have a bunch of plants from the cross Riptide x Nightmare, which I believe will have some interesting color combinations.  Another cross that I am hopeful for is Its a wonderful life x Heavy Metal.  IAWL being a pastel colored CV is not particularly eye catching, but the flowers are big and beautiful.  Heavy metal seems to pass on bright colors to its offspring, couple that trait with line crossing Fifth Dimension, I think there is potential for some bright colored and ringed offspring with that cross.  

I would say if you have the space grow as many seedling as you can.  Hibiscus are so variable that the ones that thrive from the time they are seedlings are more likely to do well in your climate.  Saffron and Cosmic gold are two that seem to bloom really well for you, so at least a few of their seedlings will share these traits as well.  You should also try to cross Acapulco Gold (as a pollen parent of course) as it has great pollen.  Lots of takes with it as parent.  As far as seedlings looking similar, as a rule certain color types are more dominant than others.  CVs with a strong pink pedigree will tend to dominate the color of any other parent.  For example look at Kristen's seedlings of Belle du Jour x Saffron, most of those seedlings came out pink.  Red is another color type that tends to dominate crosses, so if you have a cross with those color types probably planting a few seeds is probably sufficient to see what the results would be.  The most recessive color types are those in the blue and brown categories.  Saffron as a parent seems to dominate most crosses in the yellow and orange categories, producing seedlings that are in the orange, yellow or red spectrum with white eyes.  I think that crossing saffron to a brown CV will give you the highest probability of producing different color types as parent of Saffron, Misfire, is a brown colored cv. Examples of this include Creme brulee and Thanksgiving, both Saffron crossed to the brown CDLC.   

There are also CVs that will give you a wide spectrum of colors from crossing with them, Creme de cacao is a great example.  Tons of different color types come out of crossing with that CV, so I would try to grow as many as I can of crosses with a CV like that, which would likely give you many color types.  Of course there is a chance of getting surprises in any cross, but genetics is a game a probability and depending on what you cross you can increase the probability of getting results you are looking for.  Smiley    

Good luck!
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Charlie
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 10:11:13 AM »

This is a question whether you have a large or small operation. Seedlings take all the same care as any other hibiscus - water, fertilizer, pesticide, light, heat and above all - space. I'm growing about 1000 seedlings per year these days and that requires a large amount of space and all other resources - an expensive proposition as well as requiring a lot of labor to make and harvest seeds, plant them, tag them, pot them up, and then grow them for a year or so on average. Then, literally hundreds are no improvement on what we already have so are tossed out.

So, the question becomes how many can you grow in the space you have and not crowd out the "proven winners" you already have and want to acquire in the future.

Charlie
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helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1945



« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 10:47:56 AM »

I totally agree Charlie,

Especially since most seedlings are either boring or have less than ideal growth habits, so it is alot of effort for inferior plants.  I grew about 140 seedlings last year, so far only four I plan on cloning and sharing with others to evaluate.    

But also consider that there is also the fun aspect of growing out seeds yourself.  When you finally get that special seedling out of the masses,  it is really cool seeing how the traits of the parents combined together or give you something completely different.  

Definitely different aspects to consider between developing new CVs as a hobbyist or commercial grower.

Smiley
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