Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

Below you will see a photo of a heavily pruned Think Pink cv, and a photo of it 4 weeks later, the cv is 16 inches tall with 17 new developed nodes, to my mind a huge success and I thought I would share how it happened, and before I do let me say up until now pruning has only really brought me a better shaped cv, I may have occasionally got lucky with an extra branch where I pruned but that was about it.

So I looked back through the Forum and found that Chris had wrote back in 2009 that maybe the best time to prune was as the cv was in its growing stage, not when blooming but the bit before that as its developing new leaves, well that is what I thought Chris meant so I studied how they grew, and they do seem to grow in a sequence of bloom dormant grow bloom dormant grow. {Maybe Chris can tell us exactly what is happening}

So what I did when it had finished blooming I watered heavy with Supernova for 3 weeks, heavy being 3 teaspoons per gallon and then pruned, and believe it or not and this is why I think I have had such success I HAVENT watered since, but what I have done is with that same 3 teaspoon Supernova solution is spray the bark of the plant and now the leaves up to 4 times a day.
It was done by accident at first, the Think Pink stick just happened to be next to my  cuttings which I  spray a lot with Supernova for better results, and I happened to notice a lot more green on the bark of Think Pink where it was getting wet, round the back of the bark [the bit which was dry] the nodes hadn’t developed much at all, this sort of told me that spraying and keeping the wood wet was a good idea, so I then I made sure that the whole wood of the cv was sprayed 4 times a day and as you can see nodes came out everywhere, in fact there are green shoots coming out of the bark where I hadn’t even know there was a node.

Think Pink is easily one of my favorite blooms, but the bush really let it down, I think that is soon going to alter and I could end up with a real beauty.

For anyone wanting to try what I did the timings are below.
1, Water with Supernova for 3 weeks when blooming has finished.
2 Prune and then do nothing for 2 days [allow the cuts to heal].
3 Then start to spray the bark of the tree and any leaves with Supernova, for at least 3 weeks 3 or 4 times a day.

I thought it might be a bit of a fluke so I used the same method with Saffron, I did it 2 weeks ago and have a heap of nodes developing on that as well.

Third photo shows my Acapulco Gold cutting at 2 months; this is what I was spraying with Supernova when Think Pink got wet.
 There was a bit of talk on the forum this week about Supernova, well I think this photo proves its worth.

David, This is great!  I will give it a try.  I don't really know the cycle I am in right now.  Coming out of winter, I can only think that I am going into a grow stage... I water with SN every week, not as strong as you, about 1 tsp per gallon.  Can I get blooms in the grow stage?  Because I do get blooms.

I will start spraying with this solution though.  Thanks a bunch for the great tip!

Excellent, David. You did good with this approach. I use a similar technique with our baby plants in 4 inch pots - helping them to branch out more after pinching the growing tips. What is particularly impressive about your experiment is that Think Pink is naturally compact and slower growing. If using this technique causes Think Pink to make new growth then it will work even better on faster growing cultivars. For instance, it would be good to try on Acapulco Gold so that some of that fast growing energy it has can be guided into making more side branches.

Charlie

My Stolen Kiss completely defoliated because I left it in the ground when it got down to 25. I dug it up right before it got down to 16 and kept it in my cold garage for 2 weeks. I figured it was a goner. But I planted it back in the ground on March 1st and sprayed it with Supernova everyday. It is putting out growth from every leaf node now. It will be a very full bush this summer. I still can't believe there was no damage to the stems at all. I didn't have to cut it back even a little bit.

Thanks Charlie, here is a picture of a Acapulco Gold cutting at 2 months, I am holding up for a better view and its in a 4inch pot, I haven't pinched it yet but with being sprayed daily with Supernova it seems to be doing ok without, would you pinch it now anyway.

Thank you so much for sharing.  I'll try this technique on my AG as well as Rise and Shine.  I have a bunch of Tahitians that have really open and skimpy foliage so this would be a huge help as I need full & lush plants as well as pretty blooms.

All my plants right now are in growth mode and have been getting SN daily for a week now along with HVH special blend.

What do you think would happen when I'm on vacation and away for 2 weeks at the end of May?

Farmer D

I am spraying away...a big thank you again David!

I'll also test this technique with these shocked and shut down Tahitian hibiscus.  They were sent bare roots and went into severe shock now over a month ago.

Also one barely alive winter tragedy Melon Melange and a baby Electric Orange that is struggling from winter too.

I've got a feeling that with it being spring now and these Tahitians being mature plants this might be what they need to re-awake.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DSC01011.jpg)
Farmer D

Good luck with those Darren, I would say looking at them that they certainly don't need watering, the run of from the Supernova will be enough as there are no leaves.
Once you get growth on Melon Melangie take a cutting,if there is an easier cv to root I haven't found it yet.

Fantastic advice David.  I am going to also try the wake spray on those suffering Tahitians.  They all have green wood underneath so I need to get them out of the dormant shock state.

I did find one side effect that you forgot to take into account with the spraying SN program and I'm not sure what to do about this as it is something I have never encountered before.

You mentioned in your experiment that it was the accidental overspray that made you realize the effect SN was having on creating new nodes where there was none before. 

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE SPRAYER GETS OVER-SPRAY ON HIMSELF????

OH-OH!!!
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DSC01040.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DSC01039.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DSC01038.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DSC01037.jpg)
Farmer D

That's an Hibiscarm, its okay but will only bloom for a day, and even in Holliwood you will get some strange looks when you start spraying yourself with Spinosad.

Can you post a link for that World gardens in Oz so I can also have a look at the pictures please.

David I was able to find some time between sessions of spraying myself with Spinosad to paste the url for the world gardens Australia link:

http://www.hiddenvalleyhibiscus.com/world/australia.htm

Again I can't wait to see how your new plants do and the blooms you get.

Congrats on the new shade you installed, looks great!

Farmer D

Hi All!  It's John, I am back! Had to take a little break, but Iwould like to comment on SuperNova. I have been using this product for two years now, and highly recommend it. Charlie, turned me on to it, and what a difference it has made in plant growth and sustainability over the winters here in Texas.  Last fall I was just going to pull all the CV's and throw them out, because I did't think I was very succesful at over-wintering them.  A friend wanted them and took them home and SEVERELY pruned them back to 6", and I am not sure what else they did.
Two months ago they brought them back, and they were starting to grow, so I called them "My Wounded Warriors", and put them back on the growth cycle feeding regimen that I have been using for two years.

Everything David, has said is correct and I basically do the same thing, only I make sure to bring them inside if the temperatures are going to be less than 50 deg. at night.

Hi Charlie
I have a question ?
on some of my plants that are about two feet tall they have real big leaves that come right off the main trunk and kinda lay down and underneath are small branches about one to two inches long . But they never grow because there being shaded buy these leaves, so if I cut these leaves of it allows  the sun to reach them will that make them grow . I'm also using supper nova maybe that will help? I have a hole bunch of tinny branches up the trunk like about 15 or so they just stay about 1 to 2 inches.

Great question Mike.  I have the same issue with Cindy's Heart.  Leaves are big and lay down, not out.  And there are plenty of tiny branches... Thanks for bringing it up, would love to hear his input.

I posted the continuance of this discussion from the Rainbow Sherbet topic under this topic since it began here originally...

Charlie you summed this up perfectly.  What really got my attention is that (and I could be interpreting this incorrectly) David even saw new shoot/node development on some of his plants with the SN spraying.  I don't know if this is even really possible but if that can happen like you said it maybe a game changer.  

One other thing that makes it hard for me to know how successful this all is is that I don't have a second duplicate bush without spraying to see if what I'm seeing is normal growth and development or the spraying is really making a difference.  So I have experimented and really eased off on the SN spraying and heavy feeding with the HVH booster and special blend fertilizer for a month and I swear all of my plants are shrinking and the weather has been very consistent here the whole time.  

My monster COF has become so skinny, is losing all the lush leaves and has almost stopped blooming with only minis now.  All my other bushes pretty much are doing similar things with the exception of Black Dream, Prosperity and Ay Caramba which are all in shadier spots and seems to enjoy it staying easily hydrated without much hot afternoon sun like all my others (just as Charlie & Louis has stated numerous times is the preferred balance).

So I use this as evidence that the combination of spraying and very hearty feedings definitely made a big positive difference with my in-ground hibiscus.  Remember my plants are mostly in ground for 16 months now and over 2 to 3 yrs in age getting strong sun from 12 - sunset.  My potted plants and 4"s I got this year get light doses of feedings but same sprayings.  They've burned easily and got over watered quickly - the difference between the two is amazing and anyone reading this has to understand that potted plants vs more mature in-ground is so different you might as well not even compare as I've discovered.

Let's see what now happens for an extended period of time with renewed spraying and heavier feedings...

Farmer D

Farmer D, we may have to start calling you Scientist D, or really just Horticulturist D which combines the 2 nicely.

You are right that we need some control plants to determine just what is going on when spraying with Supernova or changing any of the other growth factors. I should do that but am always trying to be as efficient as possible in getting new plants started and have not wanted to give any of them less good treatment than others. My "control plants" are plants grown in the past vs the ones being grown more recently using Supernova along with good fertilizers. My impression is that I get better branching of the young ones and faster growth of the young plants in 4 inch pots. We do also pinch the growing tips but it is the response that seems to be faster with more side branch development happening after the growing point is removed. I rarely see just one branch emerging from the highest point which was common in times past.

Our larger plants also are sprayed once a week with Supernova. The result here is less clear but I have to say we have never had to send out so many 4 foot high boxes as did this year. Cindy is yelling at me to grow them shorter which we will try next year - shorter but fuller! All this is very interesting - thanks much for the input, Darren.

Charlie

For those who are reading the forum and are not familiar with SuperNova I have copied and pasted the description of this great product from the manufacturer's website (American Hydroponics). You can also learn more details about this product and why it works by checking out this page of our web site by clicking here: http://www.hiddenvalleynaturearts.com/acatalog/growthenhancer.htm

SuperNova™ is more than just a seaweed extract!
SuperNova™ is an extremely unique blend of seaweed extract (derived from the sea plant Ascophyllum nodosum), specialized amino acids, carbohydrates, vitamin C and B vitamin complex. This enhanced seaweed bio-blend will improve the growth performance of any plant.

SuperNova™ contains high concentrations of the phytohormone cytokinin, which promotes cell division, differentiation, lateral growth, cell enlargement, bud formation and production of chlorophyll. Cytokinin can cause the release of lateral buds from apical dominance thus promoting bushier plants with an increase in flowering sites. Increasing the chlorophyll production enhances the rates of photosynthesis and overall energy production throughout the plant.

Carbohydrates are the primary products of photosynthesis and are used as the main source of energy for every vital plant function. They aid in energy (ATP) transport and are components within DNA and RNA. Also included are the specialized amino acids, betaines. Betaines play a major role in increasing the plant’s tolerance of high nutrient levels, drought and leaf curling diseases caused by thrips and mites. The plant will also respond to the presence of betaines with an increase in chlorophyll content.

Through continued use of SuperNova™ you will notice the following changes in your plants:

Improved crop yield and quality
Improved rate of photosynthesis
Improved root and shoot development
Improved seed germination
Stimulated microbial life
SuperNova has an N-P-K of 1-1-1
If you are striving to push your plants to their maximum potential, and achieve quality only found in crops grown by the most advanced gardeners, you require SuperNova™!

SuperNova™ contains a wetting agent, increasing it’s effectiveness as a foliar spray.

For anyone whose interested about spraying Supernova I can attest that this stuff is making a huge difference with my hibiscus.  If you can spray yours do it as often as you can.  The more I do the better it gets and this is the coolest start to winter that I can remember here in Southern California.

I'll let the pic do the talking - Dec 23 and just look at the amount of buds ready to bloom.  I can't count them - too many and it's winter...

Just showing you what I'm seeing.

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/Dec%202011%20Hibiscus/WestPlanterBudPtofusion12-23.jpg)

Farmer D

Farmer D, that is a heck of a sight - even for summer! Is that Valentine's Day in the middle?

Charlie

Guess it's time to add Supernova to the program.

dave

It is not surprising that the results of using Super Nova heavily is really showing in this wintery weather, as opposed to less obvious results under greenhouse conditions.  Since it contains nutrients and vitamins that are produced naturally by growing and healthy plants, addition of these hormones and vitamins during this phase is not clearly seen, because they are produced naturally.  When plants are stressed, they decrease the production of these hormones and replacing them helps "tell" the plants to start growing again, stimulating new growth.  The same is true in cooler weather, there is a decrease in concentration of these hormones as plants decrease their growth rate.  Since Darren is replacing these hormones through the use of supernova, it is effectively "tricking" the plants into thinking its time to grow.  I bet if Darren continues to spray supernova he will continue getting buds into warmer weather.  I am interested to see if his plants can keep it up.

I think that this bud-master is V-day as well.     

Charlie and Chris you're right that is my metropolis Valentines Day bush.

Continuing on the seeing what I see tangent I want to focus on the new growth all of my plants are exhibiting currently.  What I'm observing is that not only are the plants obviously in growth mode but it is like growth mode on overdrive.  Look at the front part of each large branch and it is amazing how much new branching, leaves and buds are just packed together and exploded out.  It is like the plant is unable to contain itself and is using every available spot and nano meter to put out something.  

My other Valentines Day plant (VD II)
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/ValentinesDaynewgrowth12-25.jpg)

Rise and Shine
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/RiseandShinenewgrowth12-25.jpg)

Ay Caramba
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/AyCarambanewgrowth12-25.jpg)

Even my smaller plants have multiple buds on each branch in mid winter

Candy - this plant is barely 1ft (.3 meters)  tall and in complete shade since begin of Nov
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/CandyPlant12-25.jpg)

Deep Waters - every single branch has tons of buds, and tons of new growth at base.  It is recovering from a hefty spider mite attack.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/DeepWatersPlant12-25.jpg)

Speaking of bases look at the trunk of Chariots of Fire.  I spray this area extensively on a daily basis and it is really responding.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/ChariotsofFirebranchgrowth12-25.jpg)

and finally Heavy Metal.  This thing never even hinted at a branch and once I figured out to turn off that sprinkler head in front of it combined with a lot more spraying and look at all the new leaves and baby branches starting up.  Again in mid winter it is really taking off.  Just last night it was 38F (3C) and no effects whatsoever.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/HeavyMetalPlant12-25.jpg)

I think most people would either prune or pinch the tops to induce branching but it seems that I can get both vertical growth as well as horizontal simultaneously.  
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/HeavyMetalbranchgrowth12-25.jpg)

Tell me what you think after seeing these...

Farmer D

Has anybody used Super Nova on other plants? I also grow roses and am curious if anyone has seen results with Super Nova on them?

Denise it works really well on my dwarf citrus trees.  For few months I was spraying 3 new rose plants I bought in the spring and I did see a small difference.  I wish I had the time to keep spraying them to see where it would lead.  I also recently learned that rose plants are really heavy feeders so I'll be feeding them a lot more come spring.

Farmer D

Thanks Darren. I'll probably spray my roses, since I only (for now ;)) have 11 hibiscus to take care of!

One problem I have with Supernova is that it causes the newer growth on my plants to wilt badly in the sun for a few days after being sprayed. On cloudy days there isn't any problem. I thought I might be using too high a concentration, but no matter how much I dilute it the wilting occurs. They bounce back after the sun goes away and there is never any lasting damage. I was just curious if anyone else has the same experience.

John, I don't know what to make of that. I spray Supernova at the rate of 2 teaspoons per gallon of water once a week on most of the plants in the greenhouse and don't see any wilting. The gh does have shade paint on the roof that provides about 50 percent shade. Darren uses an even stronger dose that is equivalent to 8 teaspoons per gallon and apparently does not see any wilt in the direct sun of his garden.

My best guess, and it is just a guess, is that the wilting you see is coincidental to spraying with Supernova and would occur whether or not you sprayed. I have seen strange wilting in past years that I attributed to insufficient root growth (or performance) relative to fast new top growth. Several people have reported that Acapulco Gold gets soft for them on hot days and I have seen it too. That is a vigorous growing variety and I think some days the roots are just not taking in as much water as the top growth needs. You could try misting the leaves that are wilting and see if that helps. I am assuming of course that the soil is not too dry.

Let us know if things change or you come up with a solution.

Charlie

John are your plants doing this wilting while still indoors?

I have not experienced any sort of wilting at all from my spraying at any point.  The only thing I can think of is maybe you should think about this from the other side of the spectrum.  

I like what Charlie has to say - have you seen any wilt in the sun without spraying?

If not and only when you spray on sunny days vs ok on cloudy days I'm thinking maybe the water from the spray is magnifying the sunlight once on your plant and since the new growth is more delicate and more flexible it shows wilt more easily as the sunlight might be too intense for it.  My thinking is to increase the dosage of SN instead of diluting it and spray less often for longer lasting effect.  Maybe even check the weather forecast and see if you have some cloudy days coming up that might coincide with makeshift spraying intervals.  Spray on the cloudy days or...

The other alternative if possible is to spray and let dry before in the sunlight and see if that makes a difference (create your own shadows until dry).  If the sunlight is coming through windows I believe glass can be a magnifier of sunlight too so that might be like a double effect.  Plus your plants have been inside for a while now so maybe they get more sensitive over the last several months too as well as just not as used to the sun.

Farmer D

Charlie and Darren, thanks for your feedback.

These plants are the ones that have been outside all winter except for the nights it got too cold. So they should be used to the sun. The plants that I have inside all winter have no problems being sprayed. I had one plant outside that I had never sprayed. So I sprayed it just to see if it would also start wilting and sure enough it did. I never spray them when they are in direct sunlight. I never thought of actually increasing the dosage. I can try that on one plant as an experiment. Actually, I'm more inclined to think the ph of the water here might be part of the problem. I think I will try mixing with distilled water and see if there is any difference. It really baffles me. I am guessing you don't get the same results using supernova as a soil drench. Maybe I should just avoid spraying the new growth. The mature leaves are never affected nor are the buds.

So as we're entering the spring growing season here in So Cal I am trying to do my best to observe what differences I'm seeing this year compared to last at this time.  

My plants are one more year matured, this winter was more easy going than last winter, and I've been spraying Supernova non stop now for about 10 months.

The difference I'm seeing is that instead of new leaves popping up on the sides of branches and a combo of new leaves and buds at the tips of branches is buds all up and down the branches before the new leaves even appear.

I saw a little of that last spring with Acapulco Gold and Chariots of Fire but it was kind of even between buds and leaves along the sides of branches.  This year it is mostly buds and it is now occurring on some other cvs like All That Jazz and even Vin Beaujolais which I would never had expected on that one.

So I wonder if I'll get some other cvs to do the AG bloom explosion like I had the other day.

Has anyone (Charlie probably most likely of anyone) seen such a growth pattern for exotic hibiscus?  My gut instinct is that this is atypical...

Farmer D