Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

Black Dream is one of the few Black Dragon offspring that shows the unique darkening of color that Black Dragon is famous for. Black Dream also fixes one of the persistent problems with Black Dragon and many of its offspring - the growth habit of the bush. Black Dream grows nicely upright and branches better than Black Dragon. The flowers are not quite as large as the flowers of Black Dragon but are still a respectable 6 to 8 inches and are more consistently well shaped than its famous parent.

Black Dream can also be compared to Burnt Saffron, both sharing Black Dragon as one parent but having different second parents. Burnt Saffron is Saffron x BD while Black Dream is Evangeline x BD. Burnt Saffron also shows the blackening effect and in several side by side comparisons made here at HVH we see greater blackening in Burnt Saffron but better flower form in Black Dream. Both are excellent for those who enjoy the black/red/orange flower colors.

Below are photos of both Black Dream and Burnt Saffron.

Charlie

I see Burnt Saffron in my future.  I really love the richness of it.  It looks like velvet.  I especially love how it has the contrast of sunshine around the border. 

Black Dream just keeps getting a deeper red as the weather cools down. The flower today was the nicest yet. This is a wonderful cultivar.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2aj96ah.jpg)

Yeah, that's a pretty one. It looks like Black Dream's color is going to be quite sensitive to the weather. We'll know more about it by this time next year.

Charlie

Black Dream has been one of my best plants in 2010.  It is already approaching 4' in height, is very well branched and blooms like crazy.

What I like most about Black Dream is the colors it achieves during colder temps.  Being my plants are all outdoors I was hoping blooms like this one would really darken and boy did it ever.  

Personally I really like a very deep blackish red color and Black Dream really delivered here.  As you can see from the pics below the color combinations were just amazing and I also was amazed at how waxy and shiny the blooms became.  

For anyone with this cv I recommend trying to place it in a cooler location and see if you can get the blooms to darken as well.  That is what really sets this hibiscus apart from other reds.

Also easy to grow, bloom presentment is great and a very lush bush with leaves that are more rounded and shiny.

Farmer D

Darren, my Black Dream blooms are rarely as dark as yours. The one I had today was my nicest one yet.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/24qr0js.jpg)

Wow John, that definitely works for me.  This one is showing it's Black Dragon side more.  Lovely!!

Farmer D

Updated Black Dream pics from summer now...

Out of 70+ plants this one right now is the doing the best.  At least 4 or 5 blooms per day and growing like crazy.  Best part for me is that the blooms are all still very dark with swirls of black.

Farmer D

More pics...

Farmer D

Great pics, Farmer D! I'm glad Black Dream worked out so well for you. It seems to like southern California conditions and might do better here than in the hotter Gulf Coast region it came from.

We shipped most Black Dreams as big plants in 2 gallon pots, older and more fully established than the 4 inch and 6 inch potted plants. I think part of the reason it stands out in your yard is due to being older and better rooted to start with than the smaller, younger plants that also went into the garden. That's not to take anything away from Black Dream which is a great grower and bloomer but just to point out a good example of why we offer the 2 gallon size of older, tougher plants. We will have more 2 gallon Black Dream available in fall and next spring but after that the 2 gallon size will probably be sold out for the foreseeable future.

Charlie

Charlie that is a great point.  I can't emphasize enough what a difference it makes starting with a more established plant.  All the plants I lost over winter were the 4" sizes while Black Dream never even blinked all winter long.  Constant blooms and leaves even stayed on to some extent.

If you see a 2 gallon Black Dream available I would not hesitate for a second to get it.  Super highly recommended.

Farmer D

  Gulf Coast here.  I have two smaller plants.  The heat is extreme this season  and I can tell that they dont like it.  Many blooms tried to open but never did.  Almost if they were glued shut.  Same thing happening to my two Dragon's Hearts and 2 June's Dragons.  Temps in the upper nineties with Heat Index over 110.  We spent the past Sundy putting up shade cloth trying to reduce the stress on our hibiscus.

Shade cloth is an excellent idea. Hibiscus can deal with high temperatures or high sunlight but the 2 together are very tough on most plants and particularly potted plants. Any time temperatures are in the high 90's and above we just have to wait it out, watering well and fertilizing regularly.

Charlie

My Black Dream has acclimated to the heat very well. It probably helped that I moved it to a 3 gallon pot in the spring.

For those interested in the possibilities my Black Dream today had 16 blooms at once.  I never imagined any hibiscus could do this at such a young age.  I bought this one as a 2 gallon last April so I figure it is probably around 3 years old?  I've never pruned it once (doesn't need it as it has branched wonderfully on it's own) so to get this many blooms is really amazing.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/BlackDreamProfusion9-3.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/BlackDreamProfusion9-32.jpg)

Farmer D

My Black Dream doesn't grow upright. It is very much a sprawling bush. Is it possible my Black Dream is another cultivar?

Hi John,

Did you get your plant as a 2 gallon from us? If so, it is the right cultivar. We had several dozen of them and all are the same. I'm not surprised that you are getting a lot of sprawl. I think the only way to avoid that is to continue to prune so that upward facing nodes will sprout and/or to use bamboo to stake up stems until they are trained.

Charlie

Charlie, I did get my Black Dream from you last September. I was just surprised to see how upright Darren's is in his photos. I will prune it when I bring it in for the winter. Thanks.

It is and isn't surprising to hear that Black Dream can be sprawling.  I don't know if it is just mine but it has never had any problems with being that way since day 1 for me.  I know Black Dragon the father is notorious for sprawling

My BD has been excellent with branching a lot (plenty of SN spraying to encourage it) but as you can see from the below pic all branches hold their own and are thick and strong.  My BD is in the shade mostly with a lot of water constantly and I wonder if this leads to it growing a bit more slowly so that it can grow stronger, thicker branches?

I did have one time in spring where one of the main branches fell over (thought it was from a critter) but now I wonder if the weight of the branch was just too much for it to handle.  Either way I staked it back up even with the buckled and crimped branch portion and it has gone on like nothing ever happened.

I wonder if pruning it is the right idea.  The goal in my mind is how to create stronger, thicker branching.  To me that means slowing down the growth rate so the branches don't get so leggy or staking it to force it to grow within certain parameters.  Come to think of it my planters are not that wide (maybe 2 feet) so the wall on one side is a great natural barrier that forces it to grow upright.  Then the fact that the sunlight is also coming from the direction of the wall makes the plant want to grow in that direction as well.

Well that is some food for thought as to maybe some more ways to work a hibiscus...
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/darreneminian/BlackDreamPlant9-23.jpg)

Farmer D

Interesting feedback, Farmer D. I would agree on all counts.

The reason pruning can work to strengthen branches is this. When you find a fast growing, thin and green stem that is growing too much toward the horizontal or wherever you don't want it, if you cut that stem just above a node that points in the direction you do want growth, that stem will then stop growing longer. You can see the stem thicken and grow stronger as the new growth that pops below the cut gets started. The newer varieties of HVH hibiscus have less problems with this sort of thing but it is still a good idea to hold pruning in your bag of solutions for when it is needed.

Also, people who grow in limited space and/or in pots can use pruning to achieve the size and shape of bush that suits their needs whether it tends to sprawl or not.

Charlie

On the topic of Black Dream, we do have a few of this variety in 2 gallon pot size. We are not showing them in the online store because they were cut back in mid-summer and have not regrown to flowering size yet. However, they are starting their 3rd year and are very well established plants with lots of new growth. If anyone wants one of these, please write to me or to the office and we will set up an order.

The remainder of these will be sold in January and shipped next spring. It has not turned out to be a very good rooter so will be in very limited availability in the future.

Charlie

Black Dream held up to the brutal summer we had here just fine. This is a fast growing variety which is probably why I experienced the sprawling. Next spring I will move it up to a 5 gallon pot from its current 3 gallon pot and stake it if need be. Just depends how it grows after I prune it back. Here are my 2 most recent blooms from this week. Both were 7 and a half inches.

John those are text book perfect Black Dreams.  Great plant for sure, as it gets bigger and bigger for you you'll be amazed at the number of blooms.  It is a flower machine.  Mine almost always has double digit blooms going on all the time now.  Thanks for sharing!

Farmer D

I was wondering what you all thought of Black Dream blooms vs. Black dragon blooms?   I don't think i've seen a more gorgeous bloom that those on Black dragon, what's everyone else's opinion?

I can't wait to get Black Dragon.

Hi Maureen,

Your question between these two CVs is a common one.  I think most would agree that Black Dragon has a more striking look to the bloom but the plant is known as a more challenging one to grow.  It can grow a little sprawly and can be very tempermental with regards to it's growing conditions.  I believe Charlie notes that on his page for it in the online store.  Not for the beginner grower.

I have both and can say that as for ease of growing and abundant results black dream is amazing.  I don't recall where you are located and what climate you have but for me in coastal so cal black dream has been one of my best CVs out of more than 70.  It has grown extremely well, branches naturally, disease and pest resistant, bloom like crazy and tolerates all weather fine.  During cooler weather it is amazing how dark the blooms get and they have this very waxy, wet look to them.  I LOVE LOVE LOVE this plant.

My Black Dragon I got as a baby graft in March and it has grown well and finally bloomed when I was on vacation a few weeks ago.  Don't know what it looked like but from the wilted leftovers it looked really big and dark. 

Last year one of the HVH forum members posted a nice article about Black Dragon and her success over several years with it as she continually trimmed it and potted it up gradually over that time frame.  Her pics in her post were of a picture perfect Black Dragon with multiple blooms.  If I remember correctly she lived in So Cal too.  So it can be done with the right conditions and a lot of care.  Black Dream says just give me the basics and I'll put on a show for you!!

If you need any pics of Black Dream let me know...though I think I've posted quite a lot here to give a good idea.

Farmer D

Hi Maureen,

Darren is the Black Dream master, and as you can see it is very prolific and has a nice upright bush.  It also looks to be a very good grower.

Black dragon is actually a pretty vigorous plant in my experience, but grows on a short bush.  It can get very full if you prune it, but it never gets the height and typical bush look that Black Dream does.  Black Dragon is supposed to be more difficult of a CV and it is in the regards to not being able to spring back from any mistakes as easily as other CVs.  I do however believe that many people that have problems with Black Dragon live in places with high humidity like Florida, Houston etc... On the west coast we stay pretty dry and growers of Black Dragon in Southern California seem to have good luck with it. 

If it helps, Black Dream is related to Black Dragon, Evagline x Black Dragon, and although not as striking as Black Dragon it is consistant in the dark red beauties it produces. 

Some updated Black Dream pics - cold weather really agrees with this CV.

Farmer D

the incredibly dark colors show how much colder than usual it has been for Southern California this autumn...

Farmer D

HI Darren and Helix - sorry i never responded to your posts from October. 

Your Black Dream blooms are gorgeous.  I may have to add that to my wish list, but i think Black Dragons blooms are incredible and would just love to try growing it.

I'm going to be looking at the store opening tomorrow to see what is for sale....can't wait.

Thanks for the pics Darren :)

If anyone wants a Black Dream and missed out on the 6 inch pots we made available at the store opening, don't worry, more BDs are on the way. The next ones will all be 2 gallon pots that are 3 years old now. That means they will be very strong and well developed and ready to bloom their heads off next summer.

Charlie

yay I wanted one....Darren has sold me....and 2 gallon even better