Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

So, I'm starting this topic especially for the newer hibiscus grower, as I really only started educating myself on the species earlier this year with the arrival of my second purchase from HVH, a 4" Acapulco Gold.  Included are my trials and tribulations (maybe), along with my realizations about-- in my opinion so far-- THE MOST annoying pest in the world of hibiscus...  the infamous spider mite.  As it goes in life for me, I'm as stubborn as an @$$ and tend to learn things the hard way, so I am a fine example of what NOT to do most of the time.  The point is... don't make the mistakes I've made!!!


Part one: 

At the end of May I took a vacation to Rome, Italy for a week.  WOW it was amazing!! I have no idea how many hibs I had at the time.  Maybe 15 to 20 as I was already well addicted.  With the exception of losing my tiny little Funny Voodoo to the weeklong drought (stupid move number one, not hiring someone to water your tiny plant with two leaves while you're going to be gone for a week and it's outside in full sun, 85 degree weather, and in pretty much a 2" pot), when I came back all appeared to be well.  A few of my smaller hibs were pretty pissed off, not having water for a week and a day, showing their discontent by being a little wilty.  I watered everyone and again, all seemed to be well. 

A few days later I noticed some yellow leaves on my little Black Dream.  I figured it was just still a little upset with me about the drought, and ignored the problem for another week or so.  When things didn't resolve with normal care and more leaves began to yellow, I became concerned.  I looked on the wonderful HVH website and read about spider mites... YIKES!!!  That's what I must have.  I paniced and picked all the yellow leaves off my Black Dream, then proceeded to pick anything remotely close to a yellow leaf off all of the other hibs WITHOUT WASHING MY HANDS.  Idiot move number two--  NO NO NO!! DO NOT DO THIS!!  Spider mites can stick to your fingers!!

After reviewing treatments I finally decided to do the "Cindy Dunk" on my Black Dream plant.  I filled the bathtub with water as hot as I could get (only gets up to 105 F in my bathtub-- apartment liability concerns I guess, but PITA for getting water hot enough for this procedure!), and then boiled water in pots on the stove until I could get the bathtub water up to 110 F.  Took about an hour and a half....

So, I dunked my already unhappy little Black Dream.  At this point it had three already-damaged leaves on the bottom, and 5 or 6 undamaged leaves at the top.  I did the dunk exactly as described, even allowing the plant to rest before going back outside in the sun.  The next day, all the leaves were still there, and I thought "hmm, since I've paid so much attention to Black Dream and it's only growing straight up without branching, I should prune it NOW!!"  Yeah... not recommended.  Here's why:  I cut off all the healthy leaves.  Now I was left with three damaged ones that were going to fall off in the next few days.  Oops.  Now I just have a dead stick.  Better order some wake-up spray!!   Oops again, wake-up spray only absorbs through leaves.  The bummer is, I lost this little plant.  I could never get it to recover.  I haven't been able to find this cv since, either. 



This is the end of part one.  I'll try to write more tomorrow as I have lots more mistakes to share with you!!   ::)

DarkHorse, I don't know where you live, but it is great to hear your journey. Keep writing, I'll have the  "Saga of A Newbie Hibiscus grower in Texas" Chapter 4 posted this week.
Best Regards, John

Hey John, I live in the bay area of CA (San Jose).  I like your story too!  In fact, your photos inspired me to get a Bridal Path.  :D

And now, for my part deux:



    For a few weeks after the demise of my Black Dream, everything seemed to get back to normal.  I didn't see any other yellowing leaves on any of the hibs, and everyone was beginning to grow pretty quickly, seemingly revived by the warmer, late-spring weather.  Unfortunately, about mid-June my Persian Rug plant (do you guys remember the REALLY nice bush it had?) began to show yellowing leaves.  I quickly picked them off and began showering the plant (literally... it took showers with me, the poor thing) on a daily basis.  After losing my Black Dream to my own stupidity I was hesitant to try the dunk again, but although the showers seemed to slow the mites' progress, Persian Rug had lost most of its leaves within a couple weeks.  Where's the mistake, you ask?  Well, still ignorant and perhaps a little stubborn I continued to pick any yellow leaf off all of my other plants; still not washing my hands.  I even thought about transfering mites from plant to plant!  But the normal early-20s "naaah, that's not going to happen to me" mentality is strong with me!!

    About three weeks into this, my Persian Rug had lost all of its leaves, new yellow leaves were starting to appear on almost all of my hibiscus!!!!  Holy @#$@# what have I done!?!  I quickly invested in some horticultural oil from HVH.  Now, spraying every millimeter of one plant is one thing, but when you have to spray every millimeter of over 20 hibs..... that's a lot of millimeters.  Again, although the oil seemed to slow the mites' progress, despite my best efforts the damage continued.  Of course, I was quickly out of hort oil.  Not to worry, though!!  I remembered seeing some at my local Home Depot.  I ran across the street to get some, and picked up two more bottles.  I got them home (I don't know how I didn't notice this before) and they were meant for the hose-end, not spray.  "Lucky me" I thought, I still have my other empty bottle with the normal spray nozzle.  I switched ou the nozzles and began to spray my plants.  I kindof wondered if the bottle meant for the hose-end would be more concentrated... you know... wouldn't the hose water dilute it....?  Oh well *spray spray spray*.  Hey, this seems more concentrated and much thicker than the bottle meant for spraying directly!  Well, it says ready to spray!!! *spray spray*  It IS alot thicker!!  Oh well, it's night time and it will be evaporated by morning *spray spray spray...*

    Uhhh... NO!  Not only was the hort. oil not evaporated by morning, but all of the hibs I had sprayed with the hose-end bottles were now a greasy, disgusting mess.  So was (still is, actually) my patio!!!   Crap!!  I figured this HAD to have gotten the rest of the mites, though.  

   A week later and leaves were still yellowing, and the oil still had not evaporated (at all, really) off of my plants.  *sigh*  So began the dunking process again, now with over 30 hibiscus....

    What I haven't mentioned, but I will go ahead and tell you is that I probably killed three of my cvs with the concentrated spray.  Cinnamon Girl  (remember that beautiful 6" Cinnamon Girl you guys sent me a couple of months ago to replace my rogue Space Oddity?  :( ), Gator Pride, and Swamp Music all look like they have the black death.  I still have all the plants, and I'm trying to bring them back, but it doesn't look good.  The moral of this story is... don't take warnings on bottles for granted, and don't be an idiot!!!!!!


More to come.  Yes, there is more.

JL aka Darkhorse

Oh, goodness, Jordan, I am so sorry to hear this but you did provide some comic relief to the day!!!

Don't feel alone, EVERY body I know has made plenty of mistakes when growing hibiscus. There is a lot to learn! You may have saved more than one person from making this particular mistake by sharing it!

For the plants you think are dying you might want to make a hard prune, removing all wood except for a few nodes worth on the major branches. Then give it a double dose of Growth Enhancer and just wait. New growth will sprout within a couple of weeks if it is going to come back. The main thing not to do is allow any rot to start and spread. Watch for it and cut the rotten piece off before it spreads too far.

Please keep us informed as to what happens!

Charlie

Hang in there Jordan ! I am still fighting mine I have two more plants to get the mites off of. Of Course they where the two I did not give a bath lol

I bought the bayer mite spray so hopefully this will end this infestation soon. I Can see my future will be filled with helping out my friends and family with there hibiscus I give them lol.

Charlie,

   Yeah there definitely is a huge learning curve that comes with caring for hibiscus, as with horses too.  I should have exptected that!!  I did the hard prune on Cinnamon Girl, Swamp Music, Medicine Man, and Gator Pride (the 4 that are most damaged from the oil) and Persian Rug as well.  All 5 are still alive inside, so I have given them the double dose of Supernova.  We shall see how it goes!  Keep your fingers crossed for me!!


Kerry,

   Let me know how the Bayer 3:1 works.  I haven't tried that yet.  I am in the process of bathing all 30-ish hibs... again....





and now for my part 3:

    So, we are now up to a few weeks ago in the spider mite war of the century.  I still have a heavy infestation, and have already tried Ortho Rosepride (supposed to kill mites) and the hort oil, showering the plants, bathing some of them, etc.  You think I've run out of bad luck?  HA!!  This is actually the part where it gets unbelievable, that one person can screw up so much.  Well, my entire life pretty much has shown me that if something bad is going to happen, I make a great target.


 

   Ok, I have given up on chemicals and despite my best quarantine efforts, have not been able to even contain the infestation.  I pretty much had done anything in my power to avoid having to bathe 30+ hibiscus for the mites.  I had no choice left.  I began giving them their little mite baths, cramming as many pots as I could into my tub.  Everything was going well with the bathing, and I was being ultra-careful to not re-contaminate any plants.  About 4 or five baths into the procedure I encountered another problem.  I had three large pots in the tub, Devil's Eye, Fiery Furnace, and another one that I had just repotted.  Ugh!  Soil everywhere.  I used my kitchen strainer for about an hour getting the "mud" which it had become, out of the tub.

   Anyway, when I was satisfied that I had done my best with the mud pit I let the water out of the tub.  1/4 drained...... 1/2 drained.............  3/4 d...r.....a........i..........n.......e...........d........ then nothing.


    Crap!  I had plugged up my shower.  My ONLY shower.  No problem.  I have a whole thing of Liquid Plumber to dump down there.  So that's what I did.  I left it for a few hours, crossing my fingers that this would do the trick.  Came back into the bathroom to find a still muddy, full of drano mess.  I needed professional help at this point. 

    Now, I knew that if I called apartment maintenance and they discovered a bathtub full of potting soil, they would be less than thrilled with me.  So I scooped out the remaining sludge bowl by bowl and flushed it down the toilet.  I then cleaned out the tub with a towel, making sure to leave no trace of the dirt.  I called apartment maintenance the next morning.  "waa my shower is plugged up, I don't know what's wrong with it..."

   A few hours later the ENTIRE maintenance crew showed up at my door.  As it turns out, I had not only plugged up my shower, but the showers of 5 other (one bed, one bath) apartments!!!!!  My bad.....  You see, I live on the 3rd floor in J306.  J305 is right behind me.  We share a drain line along with the two apartments below each of us.  So all of us in building J were beginning to stink...

   Apparently maintenance was trying to unclog the drains in a number of different ways, to no avail.  Another day goes by and they have to call in a contractor.  After a day full of weirdos walking in and out of my apartment I was not too keen on this.  Fortunately the contractor didn't have to rip anyone's tub out, and was able to unclog the line within 10 minutes.  Guess that's why he's the pro.  Two days later, and finally a shower!!  Not so great though, when you train horses for a living and it's summer time.

   There is good news in all of this.  They never figured out it was potting soil clogging the line.  I guess they just think someone around here is really hairy.  I didn't have to pay for it, the one time I'm actually glad to be renting!!!!!  But, hibiscus newbies...  either don't bathe newly transplanted hibs, or do something to keep the dirt from getting down your drain!!!






Ugh........ the drama continues.  I must go tend to my Acapulco Gold that's currently getting bathed for the third time........

Geez Jordan, I wonder why your having such a huge spider might problem?   Good luck fixing it :)

Thx Chris,

  My guess is... lots of hibs in a small space.  I'm having trouble with quarantine.  I think I've figured out a method that cleans the daylights out of the plants.  I will detail it on here if it works.  Until then the saga continues!!   :P

Jordan, I feel terribly guilty saying so, but these are really funny stories!!! I laughed for the last 10 minutes - despite sympathizing with you greatly.

Another somewhat amusing story along these lines occurred with my first web master, Yvonne. Before I knew her I posted something online about treating spider mites by filling a big 55 gallon barrel with water and mixing in the prescribed amount of horticultural oil. Then I used to dip each hibiscus into the barrel which coated the whole plant with a fine layer of hort oil. No spots missed with this dipping technique. It worked great for me. Well, Yvonne decided to try it back in Sweden where she lives but did not have any access to horticultural oil. Instead she found some other type of oil and did the dip treatment on a few plants, which promptly defoliated. She posted a complaining message online about it and I responded by pointing out that it was important to follow the actual directions given. This made her mad as a hornet but what could she really say - I didn't suggest using motor oil or whatever it was she used. Anyway, a few months later I sent her a private message about something trivial which started a friendship that ended up with her working for many years on the HVH website and visiting HVH once every year until she turned it all over to Cindy a few years ago.

Back to your problem with mites. I sure hope the last bath helps and the mites are in serious retreat now. It sounds to me that what the treatment lacks is a way to keep the soil in the pots. If it did not start coming out this treatment would not be so hard to pull off, right? I don't have an answer to that, but if anyone does work out a good way that allows pots of many different sizes to be covered, and yet lets the water flow in and out, please post the solution!

Also, you may not want to give up on the oil treatments. They are highly effective against mites and the oil is not a toxic substance. Just one word or caution - it is tempting to spray oil without a mask but the little droplets in the air are not good for your lungs and if you breath enough of it you will feel bad for a couple of hours. Always wear some sort of mask when spraying anything. This is another reason why the dip or bath treatments are a good alternative to spraying.

Charlie

Question for all. As a "Newbie" I have not had spider mites yet so I don't know the problem you experienced.
With that said, I have put all my Hibiscus on a weekly spraying program three months ago and have not had any bug problems this year.  Externally around the pots and my planter boxes I spray Bayer Home Defense, and the surrounding areas. For the plants themselves I spray Spinosad for two weeks and then alternate with Orthenex for two weeks. Once I started this program even the Ants went away.
So the real question is will my program fend off the dreadful spider mites?
Maybe they just don't like Texas!
John

Hi John and all,

I'm sure spider mites love Texas! They thrive best in hot and dry conditions although medium to med-high humidity does not slow them down. They are tiny little arachnids (spider family) that are so light they can drift with the breeze, and are often spread by hitching rides on pets or people that come into contact with infested plants.

The good news is that they are at their worst indoors, in houses and greenhouses. In outdoor gardens they are less of a problem. One reason for that is that they have many natural enemies that consume them and keep them from increasing in numbers. Outdoor gardens usually have a lot of host plants of different species that provide environments that provide favorable conditions for the predatory or beneficial insects that eat spider mites.

Your spray program is probably not responsible for lack of spider mites because it does not contain any real miticides. My concern would be a spray program that kills the beneficial/predatory insects which can allow the pest insects to go out of control. However, whatever you are doing is working so don't worry about it. The Orthenex is the product that is wide spectrum and can kill both pest and non-pest insects. I think you are only using it on the upper leaves, stems, and buds and not spraying the entire plant with it, right? That would help not to kill off any beneficial insects that are on the lower branches where flower thrips are not likely to be found.

Keeping ants off the plants is a great benefit to the hibiscus. Those ants not only harvest nectar from open flowers but also carry sap sucking insects such as mealy bugs and aphids onto the hibiscus. They do this because the sap suckers excrete a sweet "honeydew" that the ants harvest as food for themselves.

The difficulty that people have getting rid of spider mites is most likely due to not breaking the life cycle completely. Eggs can survive many types of spray and when they hatch out the mites continue with a new generation. Spraying works best if it can be done every 3 days (or twice a week) until the mites are all hatched out and killed off. This is also why soaking the plants in hot water for long enough to kill the eggs works well. It becomes impractical when the hibiscus grow larger but is a good technique for smaller plants.

Anyway, you don't have spider mites, and my thought is that if something is working, don't change it!

Charlie

It's ok, Charlie!  Was meant to be humorous.  I'm hoping part three will be the end of the "mistakes" section but we'll see.  I'm developing a new spider mite treatment designed especially for those with space issues and will detail it if it works.  So far the results are promising, with about half of my hibs done.  They seem much happier.

LOL at the Yvonne story.  At least I'm not the only one who picks and chooses which part of the directions to follow!!

Yes, the biggest pain about the baths is dealing with the soil that comes out of the pot.  Cindy and I briefly exchanged ideas about keeping it in, but I haven't found anything that works 100%.  I've been tying plastic grocery bags around the pots I've been dunking now-- not great but it holds a lot more dirt in than nothing.  No more clogs either!!! :D

I am still a fan of hort oil, although I admit maybe not for a large collection.  It's just too much work to spray so many plants 2x a week for several weeks.  It would probably be much easier with a hose, but I have no hose... :(  I did briefly think about buying one and finding a way to connect it somewhere and drag it up to my balcony in the middle of the night... lol... desperate times you know!!!!

Sigh..... starting to get so frustrated.  As I type this my Blackjack is in the tub for the 4th or 5th time.  Remember when I said I couldn't see spider mites with my naked eye........?

Yeah, I can.  I had bathed all my plants and put about half of them (as many as could fit) in "quarantine" on top of my entertainment center, where my cats couldn't get to them.  I have one cat that jumps up there, but I blocked it off with pillows.  She climbed up my better half's snowboard case and still got up there... rubbed all over them which I thought was fine because they were clean.  Apparently not.  I inspected my Allure today, which was one of the ones up there and it was crawling with the little #$^@#^@&@.  Bathed it again.  So far I've found more on a couple more of my plants.  What I don't get is how is the bath not killing them?  I've been so careful.  Now the bathed ones are in the bedroom with the door shut.  I hope this is it.

I'm also starting to lose more cvs... casualties so far are


Black Dream (death by idiot pruning)
Gator Pride (death by hort oil)
Cinnamon Girl (death by hort oil)
Swamp Music + its seed pod (death by hort oil)
Heavy Metal (death by defoliation)

It also looks like my Medicine Man, Chariots of Fire, Night Runner, Delta Dawn, Island Girl, High Voltage, and Devil's Eye are on their way out.  I'm doing all I can with Supernova and Wakeup Spray to bring them back.

This really sucks.

Hi Jordan,

Man that really does suck!  I don't know whats going on, it sounds like its possible your cats are spreading the buggers around.  Especially if they are indoor/outdoor cats new mites probably hitch a ride on them and spread them to your plants.  I haven't had a spider mite problem yet (knock on wood) and what ive been doing is being very pro active as far as preventing them.  I remove all yellowing leaves when I see them and I mist my plants with water every morning before I leave.  Spider mites HATE water so this regime deters them and keeps the leaves clean.  Also try using Jungle rain if you dont want to mist everyday.  This keeps dust to a minimum, which is dry and brings in mites.  I think that as far as mites are concerned an ounce of prevention is really worth a pound of cure.  Hopefully this will keep the mites at bay in ur unaffected plants while you try to get rid of them on your infested ones. 

Good luck!

-Chris

OMG Jordan, so sorry to hear that.

I am too still battling spidermites I guess my first bath did not work either or it did and they came back. the plants I have at work are doing better I bought the bayer 3 in 1 and this seems to be working so now I need to spray the ones I have at home tonight.

hang in there.

More deaths to report, sadly...


Night Runner, Delta Dawn, High Voltage, Medicine Man all defoliated and wouldn't come back.  Chariots of Fire, Blueberry Thrill and Acapulco Gold are hanging in the balance.

Good news is that Wakeup Spray and Supernova saved Island Girl and Devil's Eye.  I still have a small infestation (compared to what it was) and am imspecting plants twice daily for signs.  We will prevail!!!

**the battle continues**


P.S. I have a regimen now and it really seems to be working, I promise I will explain it, but only when all the mites are dead!!!

edit- cat stepped on keyboard and posted for me, hehe

Ugh! That's bad news, indeed. Were these casualties of the oil treatment mainly? I ask because mites rarely kill a hibiscus by themselves.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you have a regimen going that appears to be doing the job. They are the worst of pests! Good luck with the remaining strugglers.

Charlie

Well, what's happening is that the plants will completely defoliate and won't come back, despite the Supernova and Wake Up Spray.  I will treat them and treat them, checking to see if they are alive on the inside, and they will die within a month or two.  All the oil guys died a long time ago.  It seems that once a hib is completely defoliated, 80% of the time it will die.  Those are the results I've been getting, anyway.

Jordan sorry to hear that about your hibiscus :( I hope you get rid of thes pests. I dipped my plants again and so far so good but I am still waiting to make sure they are gone.

Thanks for clarifying that, Jordan. Thinking back I don't think I have seen many hibiscus completely defoliate because of mites and that is probably the difference. Complete defoliation would be more of a stressor to the plant. I'm not sure what to advise in that case. Obviously, stopping the mite attack before it reaches that level would be best but I know how rapidly they establish themselves in the hot weather. I wish we could offer one of the more effective miticides but our government has decided otherwise...

Cleaning up all fallen leaves during a mite attack is important. They lay eggs on the leaves, which then fall off, and if left lying on the potting mix they can scamper back onto the plant after they hatch on the fallen leaf.

Good luck with the current regime and let us know how it goes.

Charlie

OK!!!!!  I have been avoiding this topic for quite some time because I really didn't have any great new developments.  Finally, I do!  I have finally come up with a system that seems to work without stressing the plants too much, and without having to dunk them. 

Warning:  My treatment involves lots of showering with your plants.  Any spouse or roommate will consider you completely strange.  Ignore them.  It also involves showering every day, so if you're not already doing that..... well you should be lol.  You can replace the shower step with a garden hose/bug blaster step if you have a yard and it's warm outside, although it seems easier to clean the plant thoroughly if you're sitting right there with it getting soaked yourself...  also warm water may be more helpful than cool.

Another warning:  If you take really hot showers, don't.  Warm showers are perfect.  I wouldn't take a shower over 100 degrees F during this process.




Step 1:  So here goes.  Place your plants into groups as small as possible, no more than seven groups.  Separate these groups from each other as much as you can.  For large collections, you may have to shower 2x a day.  Hey, if you couldn't get a date before, maybe now?  Just don't tell them that you're showering with your plants and that's why you smell better than normal.

Step 2:  Designate a group 1, 2, 3... all the way to 7.  Keep up with who's who!  You will need to wash off each group 1x a week.

Step 3:  On day 1, place all of group one in the shower.  THOROUGHLY wash each plant.  The tops of the leaves, the underside of the leaves, the bark, the dirt, the pot... this works best if you have one of those shower heads that you can take off the wall.  I didn't have one of these, though.  If you don't, you will have to GENTLY flip over each and every one of the plant's leaves to make sure you wash every inch of the plant.  Be careful flipping the leaves.  Some cv's are less "bendy" than others, and you'll end up tearing or ripping off the leaf. 

Step 4:  Once each plant in the shower is extremely clean, gently shake the plants over the tub to remove excess water.  Now you wait for a few hours, until all the water has evaporated from the plant's surface.  The bathroom fan (a.k.a. fart fan for some of you) helps because it removes excess humidity from the room.  I noticed my plants drying much faster when I left the fan on. 

Step 5:  Have LOTS of Bayer 3:1 on hand, and wear a respirator.  Spray every inch of the washed plants later on in the day once they're dry.  The label says don't spray until dripping... on some occasions I had to and the plants were fine.  Do spray as little as possible though, and don't be a dummy and dump the Bayer on the plant.  No, I didn't do that myself, but it's one of those disclaimers like "do not operate hairdryer while in bathtub...."



So now you're pretty much done with group 1 for now.  You will need to do group 2 tomorrow, etc.  Start with group 1 again on the same day the following week.  The Bayer 3:1 is somewhat systemic as it absorbs into leaves, but certainly won't last forever so DO NOT SLACK OFF!  You will need to do this for at least 4 weeks.  I did it for 6 before I saw no more signs of mites.  Check for mites as often as possible, too. 

If plants start to look chlorotic due to the nutes being washed out of the pot so often, water them in-between washings as much as possible (without leaving the soil drenched) with H2O containing HVH fert, booster, and SuperNova.

The sad news is that by the time I figured this out, I had gone from 35+ plants down to 13 survivors.  So sad.  :(  The good news is that I am spider mite free and have been for over a month and a half!

Also, it would be wise to do this with any new plants coming in, at least for 2 weeks just to be safe.  And QUARANTINE QUARANTINE QUARANTINE for a month if possible!!!  You don't want to end up with a mite infestation as bad as mine was.

Good luck!
JL     

Mites are a pain for any plant grower in a greenhouse or home. I grow rare palms in my greenhouse. Once big enough I plant out here in San Diego in my garden. It was really a never-ending battle with these damn bugs. I have recently started ripping out my old Hibiscus plants and buying the more colorful ones from places like HVH for use as companion plants in my garden. Since I grow all my hibiscus in the ground, I have found it best to take Charlie's 6/8 inch pots and grow them up into 3 gallon plants first. Putting his hibiscus straight in the ground really caused some establishment issues. However ones I root into 3 gallon pots and plant out, take off fast. So in the winter I do this in the greenhouse and of course found out that mites love hibiscus too. So I feel the pain.

Anyway, the point I am getting at is over the years of trial and error I have finally just realized only Miticides kill mites. The combo I use is Avid (contact killer with slight systemic properties) to kill adults and Ovid (egg killer) to stop their development or to stop any possible Avid resistant mites from multiplying. Since I went to this approach I have cut my mite problems down to where they are almost non-existent.

I think I am having a mite problem, right after I got rid of these white flies.  I am seeing alot of yellowing leaves, so I think i might have to get some miticides.  Thanks for the suggestions guys :)

LOL! Jordan, you're mite adventures are very amusing! I'm glad you found a way that works for you. It takes real dedication to be that disciplined!!

I wish we had a better miticide for you than Bayers 3-in-1. As LIG noted, only miticides really kill mites. Oil will smother them if it hits them directly but oil is stressful to leaves as Jordan also found out when using it too strong. Washing the plants works, as Cindy and Jordan have discovered, but is time consuming! The miticide LIG uses, Avid, is a standard for commercial growers but in California and most states is not available without some sort of pesticide applicator's permit. If you google it online you will find a couple of places in states with minimal regulations that will ship it to you - if memory serves rose care sites and african violet care sites is where I've seen it. Unfortunately, it is very expensive but the amount you get - pints or quarts usually - will last the normal hibiscus gardener many, many years. Avid has a strong odor, so is best used outdoors, but another good mite killer named Floramite has almost no odor and is also available online. Still expensive, though.

Chris, you have likely discovered for yourself what we have been warning about for years - applications of imidacloprid are almost always followed by an increase in mites due to the stimulation of egg laying by mites exposed to imidacloprid. If there are no mites present it is not a problem, but in the house or greenhouse it can cause the population of mites to increase quickly to problem levels. Jordan is killing the mites simultaneously with applying imidacloprid which is also in the Bayer-3-in-1. Since it protects against whiteflies and aphids and suppresses thrips and mealybugs it is a good a useful pesticide as long as mites are controlled at the same time it is being used.

Charlie

OH no!  I didnt realize that!  I am hoping my warm water spraying will work!  crossing fingers...

Oh Chris good luck... attack that problem as fiercely as you can right from the beginning so it doesn't get out of hand!

Jordan


I still have spidermites and my method of running the tub water over the leaves is working ! I also spray hort oil every other week. I have stopped because I thought they where gone but they came back so this time I cam going to do this longer. The plants I have at work I did not do the tub washes so not they have a lot of mites I am going to bring them home and give them a bath ( cindy's method ) then start my method up again. I might have to take them home for a while since I have no tub at work lol

Yeah Kerry those mites are really persistent.  I thought mine were gone too a couple of times and they came back.  The good news is that I was checking for them on all the plants almost daily so when I noticed them coming back it was just a few.

Good luck!

I found a way to get avid Jordan lol  :P

Some online sources for roses and african violets sell Avid in pints instead of the standard quarts available to commercial growers. Not sure how they avoid the regulations but I'm guessing they are located in states that do not regulate the way California and a lot of other states do. Avid is still expensive, but it is used in small amounts like 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of spray and a bottle lasts most people a very long time. It is highly effective, but has a strong odor and must be sprayed outdoors and unless someone is into risky behavior gloves, long sleeves, and a respirator intended for "organic vapors" should be used.

If reasonable measures are taken to avoid exposure it is not dangerous but I just wanted to caution anyone who gets and uses commercial type pesticides that they really need to go all the way and get good gloves and a respirator while they are at it. You can also buy Tyvek hooded coveralls to slip over your clothes and head while spraying. I use these and feel they give me close to 100 percent protection from spray drift and my respirator keeps me from breathing any pesticide. Don't forget, if you can smell it, some of the chemical is getting into you.

Charlie

Yes I found some one on eBay selling 1/2 oz. Thanks for the info Charlie I will sure to get some protective wear before I use it.

Darkhorse, ha ha ha, thank you so much,first of good advice on washing your hands ,obvious i suppose but it never occurred to me that I could be spreading the problem. I will now no longer get fed up when i am feeling down about a few spider mites,i sometimes feel a bit isolated here in Vietnam, but now having read the whole article i know i am not on my own and am still laughing about showering with the plants.My girlfriend who is Vietnamese already thinks i am a nut case with the amount of time and money i spend on my hobby,god knows what she will think in the morning when she finds Acapulco Gold in the shower.

What is not mentioned is the use of worm castings as a prevention against spider mites, the guy trying to get a patent is making some pretty strong claims and i was wondering if any one had any positive results by using them [ i am about to try myself soon].   David.

lol David!  My better half thinks I am a nutcase as well... although to his credit I wonder about myself sometimes too!


I haven't heard about worm castings as a preventative tool against spider mites, but I'd be willing to give them a try to find out.

Yes it suprises me that no one has mentioned on here about the guy's claim ,quote and copied from this website
''The speed of repellency is in direct relation to the size of the plant. Spider mites will leave house plants in about two weeks. Aphids will leave roses in less than two months and it will take about three months for all of the white flies to leave a ten foot tall hibiscus.''
Maybe Charlie will have some info or maybe i will ask a question about this in its own right and see if any one has had any positive results. David.

Well, it's an interesting question although the jury is still out about how effective worm castings are at repelling insects. I use the castings because they definitely help suppress pathogenic fungi in the soil. Since I began using worm castings in my potting mix death from fungus disease has been reduced to almost negligible for me. There is no question that worm castings introduce beneficial microorganisms to the soil that colonize the roots of plants in the soil. It has been well established that such beneficial organisms help plants use nutrients more efficiently and that they compete with pathogenic organisms that make their way into the soil or potting mix.

More controversial is this theory of repellancy. George Hahn makes a good case for it and no doubt he is one of the world's foremost authorities in the practical use of worm castings. In my greenhouse conditions insects and mites are able to reproduce very quickly due to the favorable temperatures and other environmental conditions. More so than in an outdoor garden or inside the house. That makes it harder for me to evaluate how worm castings do in "normal" circumstances. I have to spray pesticides to control insects and mites in the hot greenhouse, no way around it that I have found.

Other people have reported to us what they consider to be success with using worm castings to repel insects. My opinion is that there is an effect but it is best to be prepared with multiple strategies that can be used together for overall success.

One of the factors that has to be considered is that worm castings must be used correctly to get the benefits. They are alive so must be stored so that they survive - not frozen or overheated - and they need to be activated by water when applied to soil or potting mix which should not be allowed to dry out completely. No drought followed by flooding which the hibiscus don't much like either.  They also flourish best when the microorganisms in them have something to "eat", such as organic matter like compost. If used in pots they should be refreshed at least once per year with fresh worm castings as they tend to die out over time in a pot.

There are lots of testimonials out there for the benefits of worm castings and many come from professional landscapers and nurserymen. Whether castings can eliminate insect problems is less well established but any comments anyone has about their results would be appreciated.

Charlie

Kerry, I saw those offers for tiny amounts of Avid. What concerned me about them is that this would be a private repackaging and not a sealed factory bottle. You have no way to know if the pesticide has been diluted with water in order to increase profits, or adulterated in other ways. 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of the real stuff is enough to kill mites effectively. If you use it at that strength, and it does not seem to work, suspect that a diluted product was shipped. Hopefully all will be well but just keep in mind that 1/4 teaspoon is the amount recommended on the label and that it does work at that strength.

You can also see the problem in filling a spray bottle that holds a quart or less - how do you measure out 1/16 of a teaspoon accurately! You can mix a gallon in an empty milk jug but making sure it is labeled well and nobody uses it for anything else can be a challenge. Pesticides are not supposed to be mixed in water and stored due to the possibility of breaking down before use but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Good luck and be safe!

Charlie

how much and how often should worm castings be used for my hibiscus in the ground????/I have some now ...should I wait until nicer weather to apply....I live in sanbernardino ,ca area.....we have been having a lot of rain on and off..

I just reread you regime Jordan, and you gave me a great Idea to help me with my battle. I am going to go to home depot and get a new shower head lol the ones that can detach so I can spray my plants better  ;)

Good, Kerry!  I need to invest in one of those as well.  I always rip at least one leaf off or tear a leaf accidentally.