Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

Every year after my hibiscus come inside, I lose some of them.  The leaves wilt like they would if the plant didn't have enough water, but that is not the problem.  What it looks like is happening is that the stem dies  It gets kind of shriveled and when cut has no green and certainly looks like dead wood.  This seems to start at the tips and die back toward the base.  I have also had this happen, but not as often, while they are outside in the summer.

Hi Ellen - It sounds like the same problem I have in the summer when the weather is wet.  Could it be that you are not cutting back enough on your watering while the plants are not getting as much sun and not actively growing?  Perhaps it is too much water as opposed to too little.

Always a good possibility.  I have a very hard time in the winter watering appropriately.  I'm going to try judging water requirements by pot weight instead of how long between watering or using my moisture gauge?  Also, I thought you were supposed to water until it came out the bottom of the pot, then empty the saucer.  Would this be too much?  My potting medium is a combination of Coir, sand, and worm castings   I thought the coir had good drainage and used it instead of peat.  Did I misunderstand?

Ellen the plant's metabolism slows down a lot during winter months and their need for watering/feeding reduces a lot as a result.  On top of that the occurrence of root rot dramatically rises during winter months as well so a bad combination indeed.  It seems to spread much more quickly in cooler and wetter conditions.

I have observed here in So Cal that between Nov - April is the danger zone.  I think you will be surprised how little water your plants will want during the colder months to the point your soil will seem almost dry and your plants will look fine.  

One last thing is to keep in mind your roots need lots of air pockets as well to prevent rot from getting a foot hold.  Make sure you have lots of perlite in your soil mix too.  I believe there is a difference between good drainage and having lots of air pockets.

Best of luck!

Farmer D

Ellen,
I use saucers with my pots for cosmetics, hold water and feed from the bottom. However you can do a whole lot of bad  to you precious hibiscus by using a saucer.   Say the saucer is to big and it rains all day and the saucer fills up with water, you have completely blocked the water from draining out and the soil has no air and basically your roots are drowning in water.   It only needs a day or 2 for a pot to sit in a saucer of  water and your plant will die or the start of a slow death not knowing what the heck is going on kinda thing.    Yes you want some water to flow out  of the pot roughly 10% of what you started with and let it drain out even if you have to dump the saucer.    If its hot or summer like conditions, maybe the plant is thirsty enough for it to draw the water back up?
It also depends if your pot has feet.   Some pots mainly plastic have little feet at the bottom to prevent the bottom from sitting in water.     The feet promote drainage but only to a certain point because if the water rises to high in the saucer your roots will drown.    
As famers d mentioned the roots needs air.    The potting media should have perlite or vermiculite because it will give the soil some porosity that creates little spaces and holes to allow air to flow and reach the roots.   Perlite is really neat because it serves as multiple purposes by helping the soil retain water by storing water for later use and  it helps the soil from becoming to dense/compact.  
One last thing, we like to use peat moss with the coco because peat is acidic (low ph) and this is a great way to help lower the ph of the soil since hibiscus are acid loving plants.    If the soil is to alkaline (high ph) your plant can't absorb nutrients to well.   Problem with peat moss is if you use to much it drys very quickly.  When  peat drys out, it is very hard to re wet again.   This will cause  water to run out of the pot to fast before the roots have a chance have a nice drink.   Coco is porous under the microscope, coco holds water and will pass some to the peat moss to help balance things out.  

Been out of touch for a while.  Here in the land of stinking hot summers and too cold winters, my hibiscus might not be the same plants in the two seasons.  In the summer they all sit in 2 inch deep saucers, I water daily with a hose until the saucers are brimming.  The hibiscus can't get enuf water, send white roots out into the saucers from the side holes in the pots, and grow like weeds and seem impervious to bugs and disease.  When the nights start to get cold, they get a good going over with the bug blaster, then after they are dry a total drenching with neem, and when they are done, inside they come and they bloom like crazy for Nov, Dec, and the start of Jan.  Then some of them die a branch at a time.  Once inside I water very carefully and never let water sit in the saucers, however with plants that are picky about moisture, my thumb turns black, so my problem is I am sure what everyone has described.  Too much water, not enough air in the winter.

My potting mix used sand instead of vermiculite because I had the sand (from making potting mix for my carnivorous plants.)  I will start over in the spring and make new mix using vermiculite.  I wish I could afford to get Charles's because it is awesome  but the postage cost more than the soil

Am I correct that spring is when I should repot?  And how much soil should I remove from the root ball.  My expertise, very small, has always said "do not disturb the roots."

Ellen I'm not sure where you are from, but I live in New Jersey so I certainly feel your pain about dealing with the seasons. I'm curious as to what temperature your indoor plants are when they are kept inside over the winter?  This may be a reason for some of the over-watering issues you are having as well.  As Darren advises colder, wetter conditions are not a good combination for these plants, so if your plants are being kept in a cold garage for example, this may be leading to some of your issues.

I may still be over watering mine indoors as well, but I have yet to have any root rot issues, thankfully.  I keep saucers under all my pots indoors and this purpose is two-fold.  First, to ensure water doesn't spill everywhere indoors; secondly, I usually use the saucers to ensure that the entire root ball is being soaked through. I usually water a bit, then wait to see if any fills into the saucer.  If not, I will water a bit more until it does.  I keep many of my plants in my living room over the winter, (god bless my fiance for letting me get away with this...) so the average room temp for my plants is around 70 degrees. I tend to keep the remaining water that fills into the saucers unless they fill way too high. Typically in a day, no more than two, the saucers are all completely dry again, so this is when I will re-water my plants. I suspect my plants suck in so much water indoors because they are still kept in relatively warm conditions.

I also have another tricky situation.  I have several plants where I work and it's hard for me to have them watered over the weekends.  The plants would be very wilted and the soil dry when I came back in on Mondays.  I decided to try filling up the saucers about an inch (approx. 10% as Kyle alluded to) before leaving at the end of the work week.  At first I was very concerned that this would do more harm than good, but I've found that by the time I return on Monday's the plants are doing fine, the saucers are bone dry, and they are ready to be re-watered again.  My thinking here is that the dominant lower roots suck up all the excess water once the soil begins to dry.  I had concerns about root rot and fungus from this method, but it seems to me that as long as the plants are kept warm enough they continue to take in large amounts of water.

I want to talk a little more about my hibiscus drawing up water from the saucers and feeding from the bottom because I don't want anyone to burn their plants this way.    If you try to feed your plants from the bottom or let them draw the water back up, be careful how much fertilizer you use because they can burn easier this way.  I don't ever let my plants draw up booster water or feed booster from the bottom.    When you feed from the top by pouring water over the soil, the soil will help filter some of the nitrogen so by the time it exits the bottom the nutrient water is weaker for the plants to draw  back up.     When I feed from the bottom and pour water into the saucers, I only use houseplant formula and cut the dose in 1/2 or just give them some kelp water.     Sometimes watering from the bottom is not going to allow the plant to get the required water that it needs for larger pots because the saucer is not big enough to hold much water.   It may only soak the bottom half of the roots and not allow the top half of the soil to get wet.   

David, what I meant about 10% is this.    If you give 1 hibiscus 2qts. (64oz) of water by pouring over the top of the soil, look for 10% of  the 64oz to run out the bottom or 6-7oz  to run out the bottom.    The root ball will have taken 57oz of water and 7oz will run out the bottom for a total of 64oz.  If the water running out the bottom is dark brown I spill it out.       Pouring water into a saucer 1 time is not going to be enough water to drench the root ball unless you have a large deep saucer.    You may need to fill the saucer up 4-5 times on Friday to get the plant enough water for the weekend.   I suggest pouring water from the top and the few ounces that run out the bottom, should be plenty for an indoor hibiscus to draw up over a weekend and still be wet on Monday.     

Ellen,  I think your into it and doing what your suppose to do but not sure why your having problems when you bring plants back inside.   Having some sand in your soil should help with drainage and it helps the soil dry out quicker.    I'm not sure what you mean by stems die first then the leaves.   I have only seen the leaves die 1st then the stems.    I will say that it's not easy doing the houseplant thing.       The key for me is small pots.   This way the soil dries out quicker so I am feeding them lightly more often.   
Kyle 

Kyle, thanks for clearing that up. I do always water my plants from the top (with fert.) until some drips into the saucers - similar to how you explain with the 2 qt. analogy with 6-7 oz. running out the bottom.  I just add some extra water (no fert.) to the saucers for my plants at work on friday evenings to get them through the weekend.  Not the best method I know, especially for the top of the root ball, but I can't think of anything else to do since I can't get back down there on the weekends too often and love to have plants there since they receive ample sunlight indoors at work. I try to make sure they are pretty soaked from the top down before I leave for the weekend.

I will take your advice about spilling out the dark brown water that remains in the saucers to avoid plant burn as I haven't been doing that unless the plants are struggling to draw the water up after 2 days.  I also agree about small pots for indoor plants.  How often and how much do you use booster on your indoor plants?  My indoor plants receive 1/2 tsp of houseplant formula and 1/2 tsp of supernova per gal. every watering.  I only use a tsp. of booster per gallon i'd say once a week or so on top of this.  Do you suggest I increase my use of booster for the indoor cv's?  Also, I keep most of my plants are in 8-10 inch containers/pots indoors, although a few are in 12 inch as well.

David,
That's cool you have some plants at work.   I was going to bring 1 into our atrium at work over the winter but that means I would need to take care of it and I don't want to stop by work on the weekends/holidays.     It sounds like your hibiscus at work are doing well and getting plenty of sun.    It's a good thing when you have to water as often.   After you spill out the brackish water that comes out the bottom of the pot, you can add some extra water over the top so hibiscus can draw up some fresher water.    
I'm still playing with the amount of fertilizer I use on my houseplants.   The Led lighting has really increased the vigor of my houseplants this year vs not having artificial lights last year.   I went from watering weekly, to every day and some  twice a day all within a few months.   I like it toasty inside but air does get dry indoors even with a humidifier.      The pruning slowed everything down but now the bushes have 2 and 3 times the amount of branches.  I don't want my houseplants to bloom now and I'm not trying to push them because space is an issue.  To much Nitrogen and they grow to the ceiling.     However, soon here I will flip on the red led, increase the nutrients, and watch the show.    
I just stick with the houseplant formula and often cut the dose in half or just use water with SN.      I have only used booster 1 time in the house and it was literally a few grains per qt. of H20.  For me it's risky using booster over the winter on houseplants.  
When it comes to fertilizing it's different for everyone because of the situation and the overall condition of the plant.  
Kyle