Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

I decided to make a before and after thread of the Hibiscus I am bring back to health.

Here it is when I first got it
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/healthhibiscus.jpg)

Here it is 2 days later
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10147-1.jpg)

New growth
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10169.jpg)

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10172.jpg)

You have your work cut out for you.  Do you know what cv this is?

Yes I do know the CV this is why I went through all the trouble of getting it in this condition to nurse it back to life lol.

I want to cout that branch off on the left so it will look better but , I will let it get healthy first. I will definately pinch this plant once I get more growth

Well what CV is it then :D

It sure has improved a lot. Keep up the good work!

Charlie

2 weeks after spraying it with wakeup spray ( every other day or third day)

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10189.jpg)

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10183.jpg)

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10186.jpg)

A nice revival!

update it has now been 3 weeks of wake up spray and tender care  :) I have only watered this plant 3 times since its been here for three weeks ! I just transplanted it in a normal 6" plastic pot.
I have also found out this plant had snow scale !!!!! i have been trying to keep in separate from the other plants but its hard since I only have one balcony in where my cats are not allowed on( cats will eat my plants ) . So far I been treating it with hort oil and I have not seen for 2 weeks. I also have been brushing this plant with a battery operated dish cleaning brush lol its soft so it works so GREAT!

Here are updated pictures

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/SNC10289.jpg)

here is Snow Scale up close ! ( this pic is when I saw it 2 weeks ago ) I would have never seen these stuff if I did not have my sigma 105 mm Macro lens ! this is how I found it. I was taking pictures of the new growth and saw the white bugs once I opened up mt pictures in Photoshop !!!!!!!

(http://kerrysroxy.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p148647760-4.jpg)


All this trouble for this plant but its so worth it ! ;)

Hi Kerry,

Looks like you are doing a good job with this plant. The new growth is coming in and you are getting rid of the biggest threat to it so far - the dreaded snow scale! I couldn't help but notice that you never answered Chris's question about what it is, and are continuing to tease us with it!!!  I'm sure you will tell us all in good time, right?  I don't recognize the leaves but might when there are more of them  :)

Charlie

Ooh I really want to know too! 

Sorry guys I am waiting for it to look better before I reveal its Identity

I am was told this cv was the cv I wanted but the leaves do not look like the cv I want it to be. If it turns out not what I wanted I will be sending vendor some emails !!!

Updates , When I transplanted this Cv in an better pot the root ball was so weak looking. There was barely any new growth from the roots. This is why I brought it to work to get real sunlight until it is completely strong.

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k72/kalibobs/hibiscus001.jpg)

since its been in natural sunlight I finally see a bud :D I need to prune the sides but i am still letting it get stronger before I do it.

Nice job, Kerry! This looks like a whole new plant now. WS (vendor) is infamous for shipping weak, insect infested plants but it looks like you overcame the problems and this one is well on the way to growing as it should.

Charlie

Thanks Charlie.

I agree I wish I would have known about how shady WS was. I am still waiting to see if this cv is what he claims it to be...  I read other peoples reviews about him online and I am worried even more. If its not what i bought I will be sure to contact him and see if he will fix the problem. If that does not work I will go with plan B lol  ;)

Updates I finally pruned it while I was at work a few mins ago. I used scissors lol.

I did notice something that alarmed me. I cut a branch from the lower part and it was brown inside!?!?! I cut a tip off before I cut it down further and it was green. Around the area where its brown inside the bark is black or darker in color. I looked at the top of the plant and I see the same dark black stuff.

The plant is about to bloom and it is growing new leaves.

What could this be ?

Kerry, if you mean dark inside the bark as in some of the wood has turned black or brown, this is fungus growing inside the stem and starting to block the flow of water and nutrients. Not good, but sometimes it is confined to one stem and sometimes it spreads everywhere. Sort of like clogged arteries leading to a you-know-what. Hibiscus and people can both live with clogged arteries for a long time but it's not good. Any effected wood that is grafted or stuck as a cutting will die which is why propagators learn to avoid such wood.

Charlie

I hope that is not the case with this one  :-[

Updates the mystery cv is opening today ! pics in a few hrs

ok here are the pics.

This was supposed to be a surprise for you charlie but I don't think it is any more. I bought this cv thinking it was amethyst heart.  Well here are the pictures  :(  ( by the way I had AH so I know this is not it just by looking at the leaves)  Just wanted to get you expert advice since you hybridized it.

anyways here you go

(http://kerrysroxy.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p326944783-3.jpg)
(http://kerrysroxy.zenfolio.com/img/v7/p1948856-3.jpg)
(http://kerrysroxy.zenfolio.com/img/v4/p496460343-3.jpg)
(http://kerrysroxy.zenfolio.com/img/v8/p74863869-3.jpg)

Oh man that's a bummer.  I would love it if AH were still around too.  So what is this one, Georgia's Pearl maybe?  Still very pretty.  Great job bringing it back to health!

Kerry, Amethyst Heart would have been a super surprise!

There is a certain resemblance with this one, but it is showing some features that are not present in any of my photos of AH. The white halo around the red eye is not present in AH. Also all photos of AH that I have show significant variation of color within the dark red eye that is not present in this flower. The main body color and lighter edge could be one of the many looks that AH had, but overall I don't think this is AH. I assume it has been under fluorescent light which could explain the softer colors. It's worth watching next summer to see if it changes but since you recognize that the leaves are not right it seems likely that it is not AH. Alas, too bad. It was a great thought, thanks for trying.

Charlie

This cv was in the office window so it was getting sunlight   :(  Someone on the THML group suggested this is Lucille ?

It does look sort of like Lucille, but not completely. Lucille is a big flower, what size was this one? I've attached a photo of a typical bloom of Lucille.

Charlie

Ok then its not Lucille , this bloom is about 5.5 inches.

One of Winn's mystery cvs! It looks like it could be an offspring of Amethyst Heart, but has lost much of what made AH such a cool bloom. I'll still be interested in seeing what happens to the flowers next summer under those conditions.

Charlie

I agree we will see how it does this summer I do like the white rim around the eye area. It has orange and some brown on it so maybe its next bloom will be deeper.

I am not sure if its a slow grower or if its just recovering from the trama? I had it for months now.

Hey Kerry how's this plant doing now?

Charlie and Kerry,

I was browsing tonight and came across WS's website where he mentions he has several more AH plants that are apparently sick and "not worth the effort."  I just thought I would mention this because Charlie I know you'd like to have AH again... I was thinking of trying the same thing that Kerry did and hope to get lucky and actually end up with an AH plant instead of some random cv.  A risk, yes, but worthwhile if AH isn't yet extinct?  What do you guys think, should I bother?  Kerry what did he say when you emailed him and told him your cv was not AH?

Jordan 

Interesting. As far as the plants being sick, Kerry showed with the last one that once the hibiscus is away from WS it is quite possible to bring it back to health. If I was thinking of getting one of these I would ask him if they were all propagated at the same time from the same wood. If so they are most likely all the same cv. He may not know. If memory serves his father-in-law did or does all the grafting for him.

Another question I have for Kerry is whether the plant has continued to flower and if the flowers got larger. That may be something to ask later in the summer when they have had a chance to show their true size. I say this because if it is Lucille, which it does resemble, the flowers will reach 8 inches and be impressive. Others have asked for Lucille and it would be worth propagating from this plant if it is in fact Lucille.

And yes, I would very much like to find Amethyst Heart again. Often it bloomed multiples per day and that is a quality we would all like to see in every hibiscus!

Charlie

Sorry for late reply Jordan I did not see your question May 4 th lol

This Cv died a long time ago I think in march? It got some kind or fungus and rotted.
Jordan buy at your own risk. Prepare to get snow scale or some other kind of insect on your cv if you do buy one. My mystery CV arrived with snow scale and was almost dead.

I Highly doubt he has AH anymore He sent me pictures of the real AH so I got excited and thought he would send me a plant from the pictures.  It is worth a shot to get AH from him if he actually gives you AH . But since I heard so many stories of WS renaming CV's or him giving mystery CV's I would be cautious and not get my hopes up too much.

I just saw where he added "Amethyst Heart-not worth the effort...have several plants"

He never had this info posted until I complain about my plant to him. When I first emailed him he did tell me plant was in bad shape, I was thinking just few leaves present ( because of winter). I was not expecting a plant that had wilted leaves (fell off days after) Or snow scale. He also claimed he gave me his original stock plant of AH ….

When I did complain to him he blamed me for what was happening to the hibiscus. He claimed that snow scale was due to me not having plant in full sun light..... He also said since I was not feeding the miracle grow fertilizer he recommended this is why my plant was not recovering..... ( which it did without being in full sunlight or using that miracle grow fertilizer) I got my money back surprisingly! (Who every answers the phone at his nursery has a BAD attitude same with the emails)

If you do plan to get one ask for pictures of these sick plants and TAKE note of Leaf shape.

When I showed Winn the pictures of my bloom he says hibiscus change colors all of the time let it grow more….. When I showed him how the leaf shape was different he claimed its still growing and has immature maple leaf shapes right now, it will change as it gets better…..

$47 ( shipping included) bucks for a sick plant is not worth it to me especially with all the $$$ I spent to bring it back to life.

Jeez he sounds like a real #$%#@ (insert your own word).  I'm still deciding whether or not to even email him.  Sounds like he would probably lie anyway.  Hmm, well, here's hoping AH will pop up somehow.  Maybe someone who still has one doesn't really know what they have and will stumble upon this.......

Kerry, I sure appreciate your attempt to bring an Amethyst Heart back to California. It was a great idea and might have worked out. Winn Soldani's Fancy Hibiscus has been complained about in the hibiscus world for 20 years and he doesn't seem willing or able to change.  In my opinion, his longevity is mostly due to his good fortune in having the first online hibiscus store that has kept his search engine rating high. Before the internet became big he advertised in garden magazines. I think it would be very hard to maintain a business without many repeat customers but that seems to be his strategy. It bothers me because I wonder how many people have tried hibiscus from him and then never acquired another after having an experience like yours.

As you figured out, his responses to your objections were all false. Snow scale is all over Florida but it does not exist here in California (too cold and dry to survive outside in nature) and your plants will never get snow scale here in Ca unless you bring it in on other plants from Florida. Miracle Grow fertilizer is better than nothing but is made from cheap forms of the essential minerals and obviously you not using it was not the reason the plant was sick. His excuse that hibiscus change flower and leaf form is bogus as you know. Only seedlings change leaf form. Flowers get larger or some features are brought out or suppressed at times but they don't go though major changes. At least he did not tell you what he did another guy - "you are so lucky, your plant must be a sport (genetic mutation) of Amethyst Heart!"

Ah well, maybe a real Amethyst Heart will show up one of these days.

Charlie

It is really sad when people do not have good business practices and willing to do anything to make a buck.  This big hybrids appeal to everyone, but the majority of sales I would assume come from repeat hobbyist growers, so that having repeat customers is essential for maintaining the business.  I am glad that when I decided to get my first hibiscus, it was from HVH. (or maybe not, because now I have soo many :P) 

At anyrate, AH seems like it was an awesome CV and its progeny are still around, perhaps there will be a new seedling that emerges that looks similar.  Black Cherry is one of its kids, so hopefully the genes of AH can be expressed if crossed to enough combination.  Maybe BC x Jewel of the Nile or Muffin Man, will give another plant with a purple center and orange/yellow spotting. 

Let me look for the pictures he sent me they where of the real AH

That's what I wondered too... if someone had ordered a plant from him and gave up hibiscus because of such a bad experience.  That would be too bad.  I've ordered from a few different vendors in the past couple of years, and HVH definitely sets the standard.  I got my first exotic from HVH also, and remember getting another order from somewhere else and thinking "how can you pack them this way."

Chris, I like your idea about crossing BC with Muffin Man.  Maybe another Misfire x Kaleidoscope cross would produce something similar as well.

To repeat the cross would be interesting to do, I know that orchid hybridizers often do this.  Sadly I think that Kaliedoscope is extinct :(  Perhaps Foxy Lady could be a good substitute?

Hi Charlie,

I just wanted to let you know that I too ordered from him several years ago. You can quess the plants didn't make it. Since I lived in Florida for over 30 years but now was in Ohio I knew how to grow hibiscus so I guessed that it wasn't something I did. so the next year I ordered from another grower in Florida and didn't have any problems, since then I noticed all the bad feedback other hibiscus hobbiest have stated and I haven't ordered from him since.


Patrick

Foxy Lady could be a good candidate.  What about Haute Couture x Misfire?  I'm not sure if either sets seed but if one does, that might produce something similar to AH.  Or Black Cherry x Haute Couture if one sets seed. 

Hi Jordan,

HC does set seed :)  BC x HC is something I could do :D  Since I will have BC and current have a healthy HC.  One note about HC is it is very compact, so a great space saver!   I was goign to cross it to Dragon's Heart, but the pollen on DH wasn't ripe yet :(  and I dont really have any "frozen stocks" atm either. 

BC x Vin Extraordinaire is one that I think would just be really interesting to see what color combination you could get with a cross like that :D

Good creative ideas for crosses, you guys. As Chris said, Haute Couture does set seeds. Black Cherry is not so good about doing so, but in the right conditions might on occasion yield some seed. It does make plentiful flowers and pollen, however.

I think by compact Chris is describing the lack of side branching on Haute Couture. It will grow one or two stems straight up unless pruned aggressively. I am trying, but can't guarantee, that future plants will already have multiple stems when shipped so only the occasional pruning for shape will be needed.

Charlie

That's good to know Charlie as I am planning on getting a HC -- if I can beat everyone else out.  :P  I'm also trying to decide if I will get a Dragon's Heart or not.  I like the photos that have been shown of it lately, and now that I have more space..........



Chris, you should def. try that cross!  I thought I had remembered you had BC and almost typed "Chris could do that" in my last post but then thought better of it in case I was wrong! lol

HAHA Chris and Jordan I was planning to do these crosses once I get my BC.

I have a number of crosses I thought of to get an AH look alike.  I really loved this CV when I had it.  HC grows very slow and like Charlie said it does not branch well. I will do try my force branching on it to see what happens.