Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum

I harvested my first seeds today!  The pod was cracked open this morning when I went out to water, so I plucked it off and opened it.  These three little fuzzy beauties are Vin Extraordinaire x Creme de la Creme.  I'm hoping for an interesting flower with the growth habit and bush of Vin Extraordinaire, and perhaps even the cool leaf texture of Creme de la Creme.

The cross was done on March 30th.  

Now what in the world do I plant them in?  Any recommendations?  I want to get them planted tonight so I don't have to nick them.  Right now they're in a little bag in my dresser drawer.

I hope you get some good tips and advice Jordan as I am really struggling, I just cant get my seedlings to grow, Chris had buds after 6 months and I will be lucky to have a 6 inch high plant in that time, I have tried allsorts, in the sun out the sun,small pot big pot, more food less food nothing works, they don't die they just don't grow.I am growing in the same mix as I grow my plants, I have tried the soil more compact and then less compact so I am at a loss as to what to do or what I am doing wrong, its 3 months now and out of 30 germinated seeds I have 5 seedlings, none of them over 3 inches tall.

Oh, David, I'm sorry to hear about your seedlings.  Yes, maybe someone with more experience can chime in.

I just planted all three seeds in some Black Gold seed starting mix.  It's a soilless mix of sphagnum moss and perlite.  Keeping my fingers crossed...

Jordan, just keep the mix lightly moist - the biggest threat to seeds is rotting and too much water can do that quickly.

David, no idea what's wrong with your seedlings. Probably the heat. Seedlings always start out slow and then gather speed the larger they get. Maybe yours will do the same but on their own time schedule.

Charlie

I think you should have no problem getting your seeds to germinate in that mix.  I would just like Charlie advised only mist them when they are looking dry.  If the soil is too wet the mold will get them before they germinate!   I too tried to get seeds out of Vin E x CDLC, but all my pods were empty.  :(  I would hope you get a bush like Rainbow Christie over Vin E, :)

David, I think it just varies from seedling to seedling how soon they bloom.  I have been playing around with photoperiod and nutrients which I think has sped up flowering a bit on this batch of seedlings.  Of the 8 seedlings I have kept in the basement grow room, 5 are budding up.  The other three are doing well and based on how their growth rate has changed in the last week or so, my guess is they will start budding soon.  One of them is really cool, it is Heartbreak Hotel x Antique treasure, and this seedling has started sending out side branches off almost every node and I was looking at them last night and they have buds forming too!  Its looking a bit like Darren's Acapulco Gold with the heavy Supernova application, potential for lots and lots of buds.  I am interested in seeing what the blooms look like. 

In contrast the seedlings I have in the greenhouse have not started budding yet, but are the same age and size.  There were some with really cool growth habits in that batch though.  I remember one which is Winter lights x Eku morning dew, it easily has 8-10 branches on a small 14 inch plant.  I will take pictures next time I am there.

Thanks Charlie and Chris.  I did a lot of research yesterday and Black Gold seemed to be the best that I could find that was immediately available.

How long should I expect to wait for germination?  Several days?

edit:  Nevermind, I just read 5-10 days in another thread.  :)

Well curiosity killed the cat and I dug up two out of the three seeds I planted today to see if they looked any different.  They didn't, and I re-buried them.  I hope this won't cause any problems.  It has now been 6 days with no sign of germination.  I planted them the day I harvested them without nicking.

Something funny...  in my naivety, I thought I only had three seeds.  The pod had cracked open down the middle last week.  A couple of days later it cracked into quarters.  I have two more seeds that I now need to nick and plant.  Glad I didn't throw the pod away!  :)

The seed coat on hibiscus seeds is pretty hard so nicking helps them germinate faster.  It can take up to a month to germinate un-nicked seeds.  Good luck!

Thanks Chris.  I nicked the other two seeds, and noticed something unexpected.  Although there was some white material inside each seed, there was also some open space.  Does this mean that the seeds aren't viable?  I didn't expect to see open space inside the seeds.

Nothing yet.  :(

Jordan, to answer your earlier question - seeing space inside the seed is OK but there should also be healthy white tissue visible.

Seeds can take a couple of weeks - it depends a lot on temperature. Did you place the seed tray on a heat mat? If not, it could take a long time and there is less chance for success. Bottom heat is not necessary if the temperature in the location stays at or above 80F most of the time but otherwise a small electric heat mat will make all the difference. Some people put the tray on top of their refrigerator for warming, others have used lamps or any steady source of gentle heat. A $25 heat mat is easiest and most reliable. Don't buy the optional thermostat as it is not needed and is just an extra expense.

Finding more seeds in the pod is a common experience. Just remember that seedpods have 5 chambers just as hibiscus have 5 leaves. There can be one or more seeds in each chamber so if you check 5 chambers you know you have them all.

Charlie

Charlie,

   I thought about getting a heat mat, but I don't have one yet.  My house fluxuates between 70 and 80 degrees, and I was thinking that would be warm enough.  Sounds like I may need to get one.  :)

Thanks for letting me know about the open space.  I wasn't expecting that.  I did plant those seeds, although I worry that I nicked them too deep.  I may try nicking with sandpaper next time and see which method seems easier.

A sprout!  Almost three weeks after planting.  This is one of the un-nicked seeds that I planted on May 16th.  

It made my day.

Excellent! Where there is one there could be more.

With unnicked seeds you never know. I remember my first web master telling me she recycled some potting mix that she had planted seeds in into a new pot with a newly acquired plant, thinking all the seeds had either sprouted or rotted, and then months later finding a seedling growing in the new pot.

Charlie

1 down 4 more to go!  Hopefully they don't show up in 3 months, haha.  Should I be concerned that the seed coat isn't falling off?  It's still stuck on the little leaves.  I've seen this before on other plant species; most of the time I'm able to pluck the seed coat off but I've had a plant or two die from this in the past.  That little sucker is on there good this time.

That is a common occurrence for me. I just let the seed coat eventually get pushed off as the leaves get bigger. Here is a pic of some Frappuccino seedlings that recently sprouted.

Oh, good!  Thanks John!

And then there were two!  Well...  sort of...


Another germination question because I worry too much and can't wait a day or two to see what will happen:  I noticed sprout #2 just under the soil today.  Its leaves are sort of a yellow green when compared to the other.  It hasn't stood up on it's own yet and just seems to be sitting there.  Is this normal as well?  Do they sometimes take a day or two to stand on their own?

I realize this is a silly question that will answer itself with time, but I'm just so stoked to have new "babies" of my own!

Jordan, not all seeds germinate and survive, that's just part of it you get used to, reluctantly.

One thing that happens that is frustrating is that the developing root gets trapped inside the seed coat and cannot get out. This is more common with nicked seeds due to the hard seed coat of seeds that have been stored. Since the root is unable to grow and penetrate moist soil the seedling just withers away without growing. It only takes a few days for this to kill a seedling but if you spot it in time you can sometimes free the root without damaging it and then the seedling will be able to develop normally.

You can always investigate what is happening if you do it carefully and gently so as not to damage the seedling. Sometimes it is obvious what is wrong but sometimes you can't tell. Damping off, a fungal disease, kills many small seedlings. Good air circulation, not overwatering, and fungicides help with this problem.

Charlie

Charlie, that's exactly what happened.  The root was trapped in the seed coat.  I did free it with little effort and placed the root back into the soil.  Hopefully it's not too late.  Not looking good, though.

It lived!  The sickly little seedling has turned green and is growing.  :)  Thank you Charlie!

Way to go Jordan!

Erny

Nice going, Jordan! Turning green is a very good sign.

Charlie

Here they are today!  The seedling on the right was the one with its root stuck in the seed coat.  It already seems to be showing faster growth than its sibling on the left.  It has caught up to and passed the other in size, despite its near-death experience.  The left seedling is 10 days old; the one on the right is 8 days old. 

I'm a newbie at growing hibiscus.  What does it mean to "nick" a seed?  Also, I've never seen a seed pod on my 6+ foot hibiscus tree.  Where do they grow on the plant? 

Hi Gloria, if you where to gently pull of a spent bloom, or just wait till the bloom falls off you would see a small pod, should there be seeds to develop that pod would slowly get bigger.

Hibiscus seeds are very hard and can take forever [unless fresh] to germinate, so people nick them [so as water can easier penetrate], a very sharp knife to just take a little bit of the hard coating off. If you where to do it try to nick the seed at the fatter end.