Cindy's Heart

[Charlie]

First question.  These all sprouted differently, at different times, and now are growing at different rates.  They all have the same conditions.  Hypothetically, Does that mean that will be their growth habit for that particular cv?  Like the one that took forever to come up, will it be a slow growing cv, compared to the one that is going nuts?

It's natural to think that what you see in the seedling is what you will get later on. And to some extent it is true but the surprising thing is that once clones are made by grafting or rooting cuttings those plants can be quite different in growth habit. We never rule out a variety because the seedling plant does not grow the way we want it to. If all else is good it is still worthwhile growing some clones to see how they perform.

There are many factors that affect germination and most are unrelated to growth vigor of the plant. Your slow to germinate one could easily catch up with the others in the coming weeks. If it was damaged in some way in the struggle to get out of the seed shell it might be affected as a seedling plant but its clones will not suffer the same damage since it was physical and not genetic. Basically, it is too soon to tell how these will do in the future.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Also, two (and this may have something to do with the lack of growth) are stunted, and I noticed some brown spots, and some tiny holes, and the leaf curling a bit.  I took my mag to look but couldn't tell what was wrong.  I took a Q tip and swiped both sproutlings.  And on each I found a tiny microscopic larvae looking thing.  It was cream colored with a black spot for a face.  Almost looked like a micro grub...  I have no idea what that may be, and what to do now... I can't put any systemic or spray on them yet?  What do you suggest?

How interesting but sort of scary, right? Seedlings are very vulnerable to insects or fungus at this stage. It would help if we could identify the pest but that seems unlikely. Do you have any spinosad? That is a gentle pesticide and kills caterpillars as well as thrips. It might do the job without hurting the seedlings. If it is possible to use the Q-tip to clean the critters off that would be the safest and surest thing to do.

Have they developed the first set of real leaves yet? After that they are tougher and I spray them lightly as needed without a problem. Usually they don't need any treatment until they are a few inches tall with several sets of leaves and by that stage they are very resistant to almost everything except being eaten by rabbits or mice or anything that likes tender leaves.

Let us know what happens!

Charlie

[blupit007]

So there are these microscopic fly's on my seedlings.  They are found crawling around in the dirt, don't know if they are the culprit or not, maybe the larvae is theirs?  I can't seem to get rid of them.  I was thinking they came from the soil being too moist for my cuttings that are in the same dome.  So I let them dry out a bit, now they are on the seedlings.  I tried my best to get a photo of them.  Literally, they are the size of the dot at the bottom of this explanation point (!) not an easy shot!  And I included some of the seedling shots.

[Charlie]

Kristen, I think the seedlings need to be taken out from under the dome. That brown on the leaves of one looks like what happens when the humidity is higher than they need. An ideal situation for them would be to sit on top of a heating mat but outside the dome. They seem to grow so slowly now but they will pick up speed as they grow larger.

Charlie

[blupit007]

Really??  Take them out of the dome?  I'm scared!

[Pachrian]

Go for it, Kristen, take it off! I don't have a dome per se, I used clear 2-liter soda bottles with the top cut off and holes punched in over mine and took them off as soon as the seedlings started to grow their first real leaves. They're sitting in my kitchen window and are getting a lot of light, even some evening sun if we're lucky, and they're doing fine

[Charlie]

Looking good, Uli. Almost out of the most dangerous time for seedlings.

Kristen, the domes are great for holding heat in but they can become too humid. At over 90 percent rel humidity there is a real danger of fungus disease overwhelming the plants. You could take it off in the day and put it back on at night to help solve that problem.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Kristen, I need to amend that advice because I remembered that you have cuttings inside, too. They need humidity until they begin to form roots but they also can be harmed if the humidity goes over 90 percent. Some domes come with a hole in the top that is adjustable, but others have no hole. You can make holes in them or another way to deal with the humidity is to set the dome off center on the tray so that there are gaps at both ends where the dome is not sitting squarely on the tray edges. That way fresh air can enter and the humidity will be lowered. But really, you can just take the seedlings out altogether as long as you can keep them warm.

Charlie

[blupit007]

I opened up the holes all the way.  Im pretty sure the brown spots are from that grub like bug eating it.  I swipe it daily with the Q-tip.  Thanks for all the help!

[Pachrian]

Charlie, I know it's still early in the game but at what point do we start pinching the seedlings?

[Charlie]

There are 2 schools of thought on pinching seedlings. The first is not to pinch them going on the idea that this will get you to first bloom the fastest. The second is to pinch them when young so that they will form more branches. If done when young, the first bloom will be set back very little if at all. For me the second one makes sense because when I get a great first bloom I want to be able to get as much wood from the seedling as possible to create more plants with. I also think this one makes sense for anyone planning to grow the seedling and not take wood because it makes for a nicer looking and full plant. But the first option is best for those with limited space who do not intend to propagate from the seedling or if they do just a few plants for protection (in case the seedling dies) and for a few friends. You can pinch them when they are as small as 6 inches in height or wait until they are 1-2 feet or just let them grow without pinching all the way to first flower.

What are you going to do?

Charlie

[Pachrian]

Lol, I'm a pincher. Remember the tip borers? The benefit of these little buggers is that I now have a bunch of beautifully branched little plants with tons of buds. So at 6 inches it's going to be 'off with their heads!'

[Doll]

Charlie, I took a cutting from CH since I had a branch that was growing horizontally right above the graft. If it does root will it just grow much slower than the grafted ones? I remember you said at one time you grew CH on its own roots.

[Charlie]

Doll, unless there is something wrong with it you should see normal growth from Cindy's Heart on its own roots.  Normal for this variety which is on the slow side. A grafted one might grow a little faster but the rooted ones can do fine. Getting it to root is the trick - be prepared to wait awhile for it to happen.

How well has your current one grown?

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Seems like Cindy's Heart is a great brancher though, mine was cut back before the move and she is sending out alot of new growth.  Very beautiful leaves and blooms, I guess it would have to with the name Cindy's Heart