Saffron vs Electric Orange

[Nievesgirl]

Charlie can you compare the two for me 

I am thinking of getting one of them even though I don't have much room ! lol

[helixturnhelix]

Hi Kerry,

In reading the description of these two CV's it sounds like EO is a brighter and smaller flower than Saffron.  I can tell you first hand that Saffron has a very nice flower and bush.  It is a very upright bush and the flowers are big and colorful and I am pretty sure it sets seed too!  But EO has saffron genes AND rosalind genes for you to hybridize with, so if you are looking for a whole lotta good hybridizing genes, I would say EO fits nicely.  I would also like to note that if Charlie was to release a flower so similar to Saffron (which is already such an awesome CV) , there must be something very special about EO.

Just my 2 cents

[Nievesgirl]

I would also like to note that if Charlie was to release a flower so similar to Saffron (which is already such an awesome CV) , there must be something very special about EO.

Just my 2 cents

Hehehe This is why I ask I think I will get EO when its available again. so my next question is Charlie when will this happen  lol

I want to try a few crosses with it to see what happens. I have notice some cvs who carry a bright gene and some cv's that carry a darkening gene. Not sure if any of this si colored base but its worth a try to see what i can get. Most likely Charlie will get to watch the seedlings grow since I plan on shipping him more seeds

[helixturnhelix]

Hey Kerry,

Your observation that some CVs produce offspring that are darker or brighter is interesting.  I think that these genes may in fact be similar in how they act.  If you think about it, darker or brighter coloration is due to an increase in production of pigmented proteins accumulating in the flower.  Depending on which proteins are being produced will determine whether or not the flower is dark or bright, so by crossing CVs that have these traits, you are going to be selecting for an overexpression of these pigment producing genes and thus have brighter or darker colored flowers.  It would be interesting to see if there is a limit to how much darkening (pigment production) you could get in hibiscus, because in petunias breeders tried to cross darker and darker blooms to produce a true blue or black flower and they got the pin wheel like flower. (white and purple)  This was due to gene silencing and an overproduction of mRNAs that encoded for anthocyanin (blue and purple pigment) so that the messenger for the pigment was being destroyed before it could make pigment protein. 

I just wish that we could do crosses and see all the data in a short period of time, too bad it takes 1-3 years to get a flower from a cross :*(  I have been having very good success getting seed pods from my plants indoors, i think that it may be time to prune them before summer so I dont have to wait for nice bushes and multiple blooms

[Nievesgirl]

Chris like I said before plant genetics and the technical part of flowers is new to me lol But I do understand what you are saying.

What I meant is I notice that the flowers that have the bright gene only come in a specific solor spectrum. ( hope that makes sense) Like most of the bright ones are red, orange, yellow etc..... Like you don't see a bright brown flower or anything hahaha Nightfire is pretty bright for a purple but I think its two colors blending or masking to make it look like that.

Same with the dark genes I see the spectrum is red , brown, purple, blue. I have seen almost black also middles on some hibiscus. I think it may be possible to get a super dark hibiscus.

I like how charlie is willing to grow seeds from us. I think this will help speed up the process of what should be bred next. I have a friend who wants to get into hibiscus so I will have a yard to put some in and grow.

[Charlie]

dYes, you guys are right. One reason we offered Electric Orange is that the Rosalind genes offer something different. Even so it would not have been offered if the color was not noticeably different, in this case even brighter than Saffron which is saying something.

I wish I could tell you when new EO plants will be ready, but I just don't know. There is a pipeline filled with baby plants that are coming along but until EO is in a 4 inch pot and doing well I won't know. We are planning a new inventory and store update for around February 1.

I do have a bit of distressing news. Cindy had a hard drive failure of her email computer. She was able to restore via a backup most of the data but it appears we have lost the Waiting List requests from January 1 to January 14 (no order data was lost since it resides on a different, dedicated computer). If you think you sent a Waiting List request in during that time you might want to do it again. So sorry, that's the first time we've lost any important data....and have now purchased a brand new back-up system, too.

http://www.hiddenvalleyhibiscus.com/pages/waitinglist.htm

On a different note, I am glad you all are willing to share your seeds with me. Growing them takes a lot of resources but as long as I have them available I want to grow as many seedlings as possible. Lots can still be learned and hopefully, accomplished in hybridizing hibiscus.

Charlie

[Nievesgirl]

ok I grabbed me a 4" EO  Can't wait to get it !

[Charlie]

Most of the 4 inch will be ready by April for areas that are frost free. I'm glad you got one, Kerry!

Charlie

[Darkhorse]

Charlie,

  I'm trying to decide between EO and Saffron.  Does EO have as nice of a bush as Saffron?  Also, do any 4" pots of either variety happen to be on the way?

[helixturnhelix]

Hi Jordan,

I can assure you that you will not be disappointed with Saffron.  Its one of my favorites and I am hoping I will have a nice multi-bloom pic to show on my plant.  I have been working hard trying to get a bunch of branches and I now have five and just moved it outside. (Crossing Fingers for buds soon)  It did great in the house, overwintered very well and bloomed several times.  Saffron is also a good seed setter and has great pollen, I dont know if EO does.  You could gamble with a new variety or go home with a winner, Saffron   Good luck choosing!

[Darkhorse]

Chris, I am terrible at making decisions!  I do this at restaurants too... always feel like I am missing out. 

I had been leaning more towards EO just because of bloom brightness and the Rosalind genes.  I know Saffron is a seed-setter though, has a great bush, and a large bloom.  I really want to get more cvs with huge blooms.  How bright is Saffron in person?  Orange highlighter bright or orange blacklight poster bright?  Hope I'm making sense, lol.

[helixturnhelix]

LOL yeah its hard to pick out which ones you want!  I liked EO, and if I didnt have Saffron, I would be tempeted to get that one too.  My Saffron has done really well, and if this helps at all mine was one of the few plants that never god spider mites this last winter.  I had to deal with Nitrogen burn, but no spidermites

As far as brightness, I would say its like Cheetos fingers bright  Here is an indoor winter pic so you can get an idea as to how bright mine was.  I have had blooms that varied from yellow to this bright orange/red you see in this pic.  The yellow blooms were only observed when it was overcast for a week or more, and Charlie said that Saffron in shade is more of a yellow orange.  In full sun its a super bright orange.  

[Charlie]

I didn't think I would see a brighter orange than Saffron and then came Firestorm. I didn't think I would see a brighter orange than Firestorm and then along came Electric Orange. Only with side by side comparisons can you say for sure which is brighter since all 3 are very bright.

No hibiscus is immune to spider mites but Saffron is slower to get them than most. My 6 inch pots of Electric Orange only got them when the plants grew so large and full that the spacing was no longer adequate and the grouping created a "spider mite heaven" by being so tightly packed together. My fault on that. However, though some of the leaves did get damaged they did not turn full yellow and fall off as happens with many other varieties.

Another difference observed this year is that the group of Saffrons budded up and bloomed 6 weeks before the Electric Orange plants. That was sort of a surprise since Rosalind and Saffron, the parents of Electric Orange, both bud up earlier than most other varieties. I'm not completely sure the Electric Orange were propagated and planted at the same time as the Saffron so this observation needs further confirmation.

We just put Saffron 6 inch back in the online store, nope, I see it sold out again already. I think there will be a few more in the next update and possibly some 6 inch pots of Electric Orange. The EO put me in a dilemma - cut them back to regrow blemish free or offer them with some visible spider mite damage (but no mites of course). Most likely they will be cut back. I'm curious what you guys think about this issue...I always assume any blemishes are not appreciated but that is a hard standard to always maintain.

Charlie

[Darkhorse]

Charlie and Chris,

   Thanks for the evaluations.  Looks like I might just get whoever shows up first!  If both at the same time probably Saffron... Chris your picture did it for me.  Saffron is bright enough.    The mite resistance is nice too, as well as the number of blooms Saffron produces.



My personal opinion on large plants w/ blemishes or plants cut back without...  I'd choose the plants that were cut back.  Not because of the blemish situation, but as a "just in case" precaution.  The fewer leaves on the plant, the less likely it seems that one or two mites got past inspection before they were shipped.  I don't mind waiting for blooms if it means my plants are more likely to be mite-free.  Also, I typically treat all my newly shipped plants for mites now, so the fewer leaves means easier to treat.  Just my two cents.

[helixturnhelix]

LOL, yeah I really like Saffron a ton!  Gah I want mine to start blooming already!

Hmmm I personally like to get these perfect plants from the grower, that eventually become imperfect after my care  Blemishes are not really a big deal overall. If I got a plant with one, I probably wouldn't notice, I am usually more excited to see the flowers.  With that being said, I have cut back my plants multiple times because the bushes weren't looking good or there were some bad looking leaves.  

AND if you think about it, when you cut that wood off, you will have more branches one those 6inchers and more wood to propagate with