Winter on a Budget

[Darkhorse]

I hate to say this, but cooler weather will be here soon enough.  Best to start thinking about things now.  It may come as a total shock but most of us in any industry related to the "extras" in life are not exactly rolling in money right now.  In truth, most of us are on a budget anyway.  Keeping this in mind, how are you going to provide the best environment for your plants when mother nature stops doing so?  What are your priorities?  I'm starting to come up with a plan for this winter.  What are you guys going to do?


The plan:  I'm still sticking to my rule to bring my hibs in when the temperature gets down below 55 degrees.  More challenging than last year, considering I have some pretty big plants now and a growing number of cvs.  (anyone watch that TV show Hoarders?  look for me on there living in my hibiscus jungle in a few more seasons, lol)  Last winter my plants really shut down, as they pretty much survived on dim indirect light that came through two of my extra bedroom windows.  I say dim because for the entire month of January here it seemed like we didn't even see the sun.  (el nino perhaps?)  With this in mind, I will shuttle them outside whenever possible for some extra light.  Artifical lights would make life much easier, but I don't want to spend the $$ on a system when *hopefully* next winter I will have a GH in the backyard, not to mention I don't really want to get a $1300 power bill.  To solve the plant transportation issue I am planning on investing in a little red wagon (really) and making my DBF help me.    Thus presents my first query, best presented in a hypothetical scenario.........

It's a high of 57 degrees today and sunny.  Is it better to leave the plants indoors with a warmer temp of 70 and let them have an hour or two of direct light through the windows, or take them out into the cooler temperature to give them more sun?


So I've talked about temperature and light issues, what's next?  SPACE!  I had 11 tiny plants last winter and now have 30 something larger plants.  I have six windows throughout the house, 5 of which actually have sun shining through them at some point during the day.  I'm going to group the plants based on shade tolerance and spread them throughout the house.  I should have enough room for everyone this year.  BUT, last year my plants were shut off in the extra bedroom because I have 4 cats, one of whom is a digger and 2 of whom eat any plant material in sight (then they proceed to puke said plant material back up in another location which makes this facet of their personalities even more wonderful).  I'm hoping that if I group the plants tightly and raise them off the floor that this will eliminate the problem.  We'll see about that.  This actually leads into my final thought for the evening on this subject.  Grouping the plants tightly makes me shudder as I'm still dealing with spider mites.  If I haven't gotten rid of them for sure within the next month or so I am planning on buying Kontos, which Charlie mentioned in another thread as being the first and only systemic miteicide.  This will be the big expense of the winter for the plants, as I'm DONE with mite sprays other than spraying with plain old H₂O when I can.  Hopefully Kontos works well and the mites don't get resistant before it kills them all..............


All for now.  More to come as more comes up!!

[helixturnhelix]

I am with you Jordan, I might have found a solution though.  I was planing on getting grow lights during winter, (Coastal WA is very grey) but I just found out that I could rent out greenhouse space at the university greenhouses.    That might in fact be more economically feasible than grow lights. 

Being in central cali, are you near UC Davis?  You might be able to talk to the manager of the greenhouse to rent or give you space, well until you get your own...

[Doll]

Fortunately I don't have to worry about bringing mine indoors till right after Thanksgiving. I have a sun room that should hold all of mine if I quit ordering new ones.

[Charlie]

Chris, what a great idea! There's an orchid grower in San Diego who takes in people's orchids for whatever reason - winter, plants not in bloom, going on vacation - and rents space in his greenhouse for this purpose. I also know of a guy back east who manages to house his large collection of hibiscus in greenhouses he rents from various schools each winter, even high schools sometimes have them. I forgot all about this until you mentioned your plan for the winter.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Jordan, in my experience hibiscus don't do that well being moved around a lot - like out for a day. I also believe that heat is more important to them than light although of course there is a lower limit for light that must be met or they go downhill. So, my answer to your hypothetical scenario is that the hibiscus will be better off staying inside in the heat. That said, every situation is different and you should experiment with any approach you think might be helpful. Then of course let us know if it was a disaster or a success! 

Cats I don't know what to do with. Luckily our 2 don't bother the hibiscus. There are hot pepper sprays but who knows if that would work or make it worse.

Anyway, good topic you started.

Charlie

[Pachrian]

Funny that you are talking about winter...I'm still waiting for summer to get started. The sun comes out in the morning these days but the temps are still around 73 during the day. Weird!  

My plan for the winter is to leave the older plants outside. I'll have to move them to the front of the house where I get sunshine and heat for around 6 hours. At night it usually doesn't get too cold right up against the house. However, if it rains a lot I think I will build them some sort of shelter in the backyard. Charlie, I read what you said about moving plants. I hope if I have to move the plants to a different outdoor location it won't be too stressful for them...how would they know anyway? In this case wouldn't they be reacting more to the change in temperature/humidity/light that I have no control over? Now what will I do if I see the temps drop too much? Move or not move? Sigh, I was so blissfully ignorant last winter (and ended up losing Cinnamon Girl).

The little plants will come inside when it gets colder. I have plenty of huge SE facing windows but I'm worried about my new cat. Maybe the hibs will have to go into my garage which also faces SE and has windows that let the low sun in. It's just not very pretty in there

[Darkhorse]

Chris that's an amazing idea.  I am too far from Davis (about an hour and ten min drive) but as a last resort would consider renting GH space from a school... Pacific College is close by, and with their tuition prices they'd better have some amenities...  or hiring a "plant sitter" (hehe) if my hibs don't do well with the plan I have.  I'm selfish and want to keep them home if I can though, so I can enjoy winter blooms.

Charlie thanks for addressing my hypothetical scenario.  Makes me feel good that maybe I won't need to move them much.  I already know it will be a pain in the you-know-where to move them often.  I'm hoping we'll have more sun this winter.  If so they should do just fine with the sun coming through the windows, especially if I put them right up next to the window on a table.  Last winter they were spread out across the bedroom floor.

Doll, you're so lucky to have a sun room!  We had a huge one when I was a kid and I would KILL to have that now!!!

Uli, it has been cooler than normal lately here too.  When I say that I mean 80 to 85.  It's usually around 100-105 here this time of year so I'm not complaining!  I do think CA isn't going to come out of this cool weather before winter though.  The horses are shedding their summer coats a month and a half early, and just the other day I saw a large flock of geese flying south.  The days aren't any shorter than they were last time this year so I think the animals know something we have yet to realize.  Hopefully just an early winter and not too cold.

[helixturnhelix]

Jordan,

my plan is to stock up on those 4inchers and grow them in the greenhouse space over the winter.  By the time spring rolls around well have great big ready to bloom plants for the summer and we didn't have to have those non bloomers take up any space.  Since hibiscus also go through non blooming growth periods, its a great way to switch them out

Weather has been very bizarre all over the world.  With global climate shift, drier places get drier and wetter places get wetter.  In Cali, if this trend keeps up we are looking at cooler, wetter winters that last longer.  Great for outdoor activities, not so great for hibiscus growing. 

[Pachrian]

Charlie, I just read your newsletter. Can you believe that just yesterday I bought a little greenhouse at Lowe's? It's a very cheap $89 pop-up GH, 5'x5, 6.5' tall. Bring on the rain

[Charlie]

That's good, Uli. Whether you put a little heater in it or not it will help keep average temps higher. You will find that one of the biggest challenges is preventing it from getting too hot on a sunny day. Even if it is cool outside you should open the door before leaving for the day.

Charlie

[Pachrian]

We've had some crazy weather, haven't we, Charlie. Last week we had this sudden super heat and this week it's been cold (a 50 degree drop) and rainy. A good time to pop open my little fold up greenhouse and try it out. I just lifted it over the table where my little hibiscus sit, and it did a great job keeping them dry and cozy.

Now that the sun is out again I will think about a more permanent solution for the winter, maybe get some shelves.

[Charlie]

That little pop up will make a lot of difference during the winter. Just keep in mind that although they raise the average temperature the hibs will experience and warm up fast in the morning and lose heat slowly at night by morning the inside will be at or very close to the outdoor temperature. Only really important on nights that freeze but it would be worth sticking a small heater inside on those nights or even a string of outdoor Christmas type lights that give off a fair amount of heat.

Charlie

[Pachrian]

So far everything looks fine. I moved the greenhouse right up against my neighbor's house in hopes that the nights wouldn't get too cold. I assume that did the trick during the recent freeze we had (temps in the early morning were down to 32 degrees outside the GH!). My babies just keep blooming

[Darkhorse]

I've been lurking for awhile with little time to write, but boy do I miss the forum.  I'm trying to find more time these days.  I was re-reading this post and my winter plans have drastically changed since I've written it. 


First off, it has been impossible for me to leave my plants throughout the house.  Despite my best efforts (turning plastic carpet stuff upside down, water spraying, bitter apple), the kitty cats were terrorizing the hibs.  So, no leaving them in sunny windows for the entire winter.  Should've known I wouldn't get off that easily!  So, that inevitably leaves the infamous hibiscus shuffle.  They live closed off in the two extra bedrooms on cold nights and outside on sunny days.  The bedrooms each have one window, but these are smaller windows that don't allow nearly enough light in to satisfy the entire group.  Ok last year when I had a relatively small group of plants.  Now, not so much.  The equation I use is:

moving ginormous 30+lb ceramic pot + big plant + dirt + water spillage + messed up back from naughty horses = lots of tylenol and a few cuss words

Definitely a labor of love.  I still do the hibey shuffle though, but that 55 degree figure has gone WAAY out the window.  Larger plants I leave out into the high 30s and so far they've done just fine.  Smaller plants I tend to bring in in the low 40s.  I wanted to make a note on this also.  Of course heat is very, very important to the plants in winter, but I've noticed that in a low-light situation (i.e. across the room from the only window when it rains or is overcast for a week) is incredibly stressful as well.  I am fortunate that my area gets into the 50s during the day and rarely sees a low in the freezing temperatures.  I get away with leaving them out some nights when most people can't.  I think they're almost better off staying outside (assuming sunny weather) with the days in the 50s and the nights in the 40s than staying inside with very little light.  Some cvs do seem to better in low light than others. 

Those doing markedly well are:
Valentine's Day
Winter Lights
Black Dragon
Heavy Metal
Sleeping Beauty
Magnifique
Silver Memories
Buttercup

Not so happy are:
Heartbreak Hotel
Island Girl
Sunkissed Blonde
Burnt Saffron



I haven't lost anyone....... yet.  I hope they all make it through the winter.  The bottom line?  A greenhouse next winter.  No matter what! 

I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas!  Can't wait for Jan 1!

[Mike]

 Hi I decided to buy some T5's they work great. So for those days that the sun doesn't shine I rotate my plants under the light, they are four 6500k & four 2700k bulbs, I actually  had to move them away from the plants because I put them to close to a few of the plants and I burned the leaves they are real strong. I got them on ebay for 227 with free shipping, best price I could find. The other half of my plants are in a bay window they won't all fit under the light I have to many, so I still want to buy a few MORE does that make sense, O I thought so to, you know I just need about 6 or 7 more. Have a merry Christmas      

[Darkhorse]

Oh boy is winter a big pain in my @#%@#!!!!  Mites mites mites, fungus, and cats.  It's like revenge of the mites part II at my house right now... in one bedroom in particular.  The weird thing is that I've been feeding Kontos w/ every watering.  I'm guessing the plants just haven't been taking water up fast enough.  I've doubled the dose of Kontos from 1/8 tsp per gallon to 1/4 tsp per gallon in hopes that this will help.  With watering happening less than once a week, we shall see.  I'm concerned that I now have a resistant mite population and I've created the world's first supermite.

Now, some of my plants are developing black leaf spot.  It does seem to be spread by proximity, as all of the affected plants are crammed on one table in a window. 


..........Now for venting..........

I washed Valentine's Day off in the shower tonight as she was covered in mites.  Besides the fact that I'm creeped out by the idea that all the mites jumped onto me for dear life (I know I don't have chlorophyl for them to drink, but still, EWW).  This is the same plant that the littlest kitty knocked off the table and crushed earlier this winter.  Anyway, she's sickly from the mites, has fungus, and then I somehow fall asleep for an hour after washing her off.  The plant is still in the shower and the same little kitty that knocked Vday off the table has now chewed off another branch.  @#$^@#$!!!

[Charlie]

I'm really sorry to hear this, Jordan. Valentines Day is one of the worst for getting mites when grown indoors. Strangely enough, I don't have any problems with it outside. You may want to keep it away from other plants for the rest of winter.

I don't know what to think about the Kontos. Hopefully the larger dose will make a difference. It continues to work well for us on our indoor hibiscus. Only an occasional small outbreak that is limited to one plant from time to time but otherwise mite-free for over a year now. If there was a time that the pesticide level was lower and mites moved in then all you can do is keep it higher for the next few weeks and the mites should disappear, based on our experience here. One problem with showering the plants while trying to use Kontos is that saturates the root ball with water and makes absorbing the Kontos slower. I understand how hard it is to stand by and watch the leaves fall off but maybe someway of showering without drenching the soil can be worked out.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Charlie

[Darkhorse]

Vday was definitely the worst affected of those on the table.  Saffron is right in there with the rest, and doesn't seem to have any mites yet.  I'm sure the mite resurgence is due to the fact the plants have been almost frozen in time... indoor temps but very little sun have almost halted their growth and uptake of water. 


Is winter over yet?  lol

[helixturnhelix]

Well geez mike that is an awesome set up!  Your plants are going to just take off in the spring, without any help!

Jordan,  Definately try my hot soapy water technique on your plants.  I fill a 1 gallon sprayer with hot water (as hot as the water in the tub will come out) and a drop of soapy water.  I spray the back of the leaves down once a week and it seems to keep the mites at bay.  I havent had any problems with them so far.  Good luck, hopefully the sun will come out soon!  I still have another 5 months of cloudy weather.

[blupit007]

Ugh!  Jordan, I hear ya!  I have been using the Kontos also and I have been dealing with mites for a couple weeks now out of nowhere.  I have been spraying off the ones that have signs of them in the shower.  I also upped the dose of Kontos last week only to bring it back down yesterday... Hopefully it will work.  Seems to have, cross my fingers.  Chris, I will try this, you don't hose them down in the shower at all? 

[helixturnhelix]

I am really lazy and have crappy dorm-like carpet so if it gets wet I just through a fan on it.  You really dont need too much water using this method.  I bet putting them in your tub would be a good idea... like washing your dog.  Ive been treating my hibiscus like a pet, oh its time for Geronimo spray down,  geez Shockwave looks hungry, better give it some booster.  Sigh... this is what happens when your apartment only lets you have fish.

[Darkhorse]

The soapy water does seem to be helping.  I've also upped my dose of Kontos, which also seems to help.  A few more weeks and I should be able to put them all outside again!  My Space Oddity and Purple Magic are so large, they've been able to spend most of the winter outside.