Hidden Valley Hibiscus Forum
May 25, 2012, 05:14:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: 2011 HVH Online Store is Open!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The woahs of fertilization organic vs inorganic fertilizers  (Read 766 times)
helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1715



« on: June 23, 2011, 09:56:57 PM »

Well it seems that there is a bit of discussion on what fertilizers are best organic vs inorganic, so I thought I would write a bit about what I know concerning plant nutrient uptake and community interactions. 

As Charlie stated previously, fertilizers are nutrients for plants, plain and simple.  Plants need Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium (and a few micronutrients Mn, Zn, Mo, Fe, etc..) for good growth and flowering.  When plants are grown in the ground, in the wild without human interaction, these nutrients are supplied via decomposition byproducts of dead material.  There is a complex composition of microorganisms which make up the rhizosphere (root area) of plants.  As long as there is a continuous application of these nutrients from any source, usually via decomposition, there will be good growth and flowering.  As Darren has shown with his plants last year, a generous supply of organic matter to the soil gives all the nutrients they need and leads to great growth and flowering.  (Yes all those amazing pictures he showed were without the use of any application of fertilizer, only great soil chemistry!)  With increased concentration of certain nutrients, potassium in particular, we can augment the flower pigment production and cell wall composition of our plants.  If these vital nutrients for growth are not present in the soil, then they will need to be added via fertilization.  Plants in the ground can actively grow additional roots to seek out missing nutrients. 

This differs from pots, where the environment is confined and nutrients limited.
So what is happening in the potted environment?  As plants grow, roots begin to replace soil as the soil and nutrients in potting soil break down.  After this occurs, there is no longer sufficient nutrients to support growth and it must be supplied externally, via fertilization.     

So what is the difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers?  To the plant, as long as it gets the N-P-K ratio it requires to grow, the source doesnt matter. 

Inorganic fertilizers are usually bound to different salt ions, which is where the problem of salt burn stems from.  With inorganic salt-rich chemicals, (usually Chloride salts) if you over fertilize your plants, they become hypotonic and essentially dry out.  This is why when you observe salt burn in plants the symptoms include browning of the leaves.  The manufacturing of these fertilizers is also very energy intensive and requires the use of raw materials.  Since the chemical nature of these compounds are simple salts, they are very fast acting and very water soluble.  Inorganic fertilizers also do not stick around in the soil, requiring more consistent application. 

Organic fertilizers are produced either by waste excrement by animals (cow and chicken manure) or decomposition of plant material.  As Charlie has stated, these fertilizers seldom have the right N-P-K ratio required for hibiscus separately, as usually animal based fertilizers are high in nitrogen and phosphorous and low in potassium.  However, seaweed based fertilizers do contain high levels of potassium.  Therefore you could easily apply an animal based fertilizer, in conjunction with seaweed, to produce a ratio that is ideal for hibiscus.  These seaweed fertilizers also contain the micro-nutrients required for growth as well.  Organic fertilizers also tend to last longer in the soil when compared to inorganic salt-based fertilizers. This is likely due to the fact they usually exist as bigger molecules and are often a more "bio-available" form of the nutrient.  Although there are a few cases of overuse of concentrated chicken manure causing ill effects, I have not been able to find any evidence to support that this is true for other sources of organic fertilizers.  Bottom line, natural sources of these nutrients do not exist in high enough concentrations to cause problems and do not contain the salts associated with synthetic fertilizers.

With that being said, I have used both HVH special blend and the organic fertilizer previously offered by HVH with equal results.  Organic fertilizers allow a bit more wiggle room as far as "hickups" in dosing are concerned, but both provide the nutrients required for good growth and blooming.

Over-fertilization can cause environmental problems associated with nutrient leaching, but a well structured and accurate dose of nutrients will keep both your plants and environment happy Smiley   


   
Logged
Charlie
Administrator
*****
Posts: 3055



« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 06:15:51 AM »

Very nicely balanced article, Chris! Great summary of the facts pertaining to the old but still ongoing debate regarding how best to provide nutrients for plants.

Two small points to add. The chloride salts you mention are often used in inexpensive fertilizers for that very reason - they are cheap. We avoided chloride salts entirely in the HVH Special Blend.

Second - regarding plants in pots, many people do not realize that the main ingredients in commercial potting mix do not contain plant nutrients at all or only in trace amounts. Peat moss, bark, coco coir, sand and perlite are the most commonly used materials in potting mix and these are not a source of plant nutrients. They are used because of their physical properties - for example the ability to hold water and air in beneficial ratios, and their cation exchange capacity which refers to how well a soil absorbs and store nutrients that can then be transferred to the plants. Bottom line - it's up to the grower/gardener to supply nutrients to potted plants because otherwise there are none in standard potting mixes.

Thanks for the good review, Chris.

Charlie

Logged
farmer d
Farmer D

Posts: 1109


Hollywood, CA


« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 07:59:02 AM »

Chris and Charles this is great stuff.  It is nice to learn some of the science behind the scenes of our efforts.

Just for the record I have pretty much been using the special blend fert since very early on with all of my hibiscus starting from last year.  It was this year that I added the booster when I couldn't seem to get my plants to regenerate that quickly from the effects of winter.

I would barely water them and they would yellow very easily.  The booster eliminated this immediately with every single one of my plants (over 70) greening up completely and started growing like crazy with exponential bud growth too.

I counted yesterday and Black Dream now has over 140 buds, COF 130+, AG 80+, Hot Pepper went from hardly any to 60+.  I have never had results even close to this before and none of my plants from last year show any signs of burn at all (a few of my small new ones do now - so I stopped with the booster for now with them).

Just stating the objective results here, the booster made a significant difference for me.  I had been using Supernova along with special blend before this but was running into the yellowing issue even with the seaweed extract.

Farmer D
Logged
Charlie
Administrator
*****
Posts: 3055



« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 08:10:10 AM »

Darren, I have only 1 thing to say about those bud counts - AWESOME! 

Charlie
Logged
Halibut

Posts: 47


« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 09:09:37 AM »

Just stating the objective results here, the booster made a significant difference for me.  I had been using Supernova along with special blend before this but was running into the yellowing issue even with the seaweed extract.

Farmer D

Hi Darren,
I am curious as to the yellowing issue that you speak of? We have been using the HVH special blend coupled with the Supernova with great results. Did you have a soil nutrient Imbalance, or bad water like us here in the Silverlake area where the PH averaged 7.7, which did not allow for sufficient nutrient uptake?
Logged
blupit007

Posts: 859



« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 05:24:54 AM »

Chris, Awesome job!  So well written.  Makes sense to me now.  Also, Darren, INSANE amount of buds!  Is that even possible?
Logged

-Kristen
Charlie
Administrator
*****
Posts: 3055



« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 08:01:29 AM »

Kristin, high bud counts are indeed possible once the plants get large enough to start making lots of side branches. I was pleasantly shocked by a Pinot Noir in a 5 gallon pot yesterday - it has grown to about 4 feet in height but this summer, it's 3rd summer, has also shot out many side branches from the 4 main stems that are all budding up. Varieties that do not branch that well won't be able to bud up as much but for those that do - look out! Longer growing seasons and lots of warmth plus good nutrition help a lot too.

Charlie
Logged
farmer d
Farmer D

Posts: 1109


Hollywood, CA


« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 07:32:40 PM »

Hi Darren,
I am curious as to the yellowing issue that you speak of? We have been using the HVH special blend coupled with the Supernova with great results. Did you have a soil nutrient Imbalance, or bad water like us here in the Silverlake area where the PH averaged 7.7, which did not allow for sufficient nutrient uptake?

Hal sorry it took so long to get back to you on this one.  Great question and observation.  I went around to each plant and tested the soil today (all 70) and my soil ph hovers just over 6 for most of my plants (some were a little over 7).  Couple that with our LA high alkaline water as you stated and the plants are getting watered but still not really fed.

I'm probably about 4 miles from you in the Larchmont Heights area and our soil here is really heavy dark clay.  So over watering is really a problem with the higher alkaline PH.  That is where the booster has really helped me out because I can water a lot less and still get them needed nutrients.  Before it was constantly yellowing and veiny leaves even with the special blend fert.  Maybe your soil isn't as clay-filled as mine?  I've worked hard to amend it a lot but it gets to a point where I was going to excavate all of my planters' soil which is too much for one person.

Another interesting thing with the clay soil and this happened to me while on vacation in May is what happens when it dries out.  It becomes a horrific brick like cement that nothing can break apart.  We had a couple of wind events while I was gone for 2 weeks and I was shocked how quickly the soil dried out even with the cool temps this year.  All my hibs were suffering greatly when I got back so that was another month and a half of just catching up to where they were before I left.

Hey since you're in the area feel free to stop by and check out my hibs anytime.  Nice to get to know some fellow hibiscus lovers.

Farmer D
Logged
Halibut

Posts: 47


« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 08:59:03 AM »

It sounds like we have basically the same soil type... We are in the process of some major landscaping design in our backyard (Hillside) . We currently have all of our plants in pots in a 10' X 20' shadehouse, which seems to help tremendously.

We live in the Franklin Hills area by Hyperion and it would be great to get together sometime.

Hal & Jean
Logged
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines