Hybrid hibiscus general question

[Nievesgirl]

I never really thought about this since I've been referring to these plants as exotic hibiscus. I see that they can be called both exotic and hybridized hibiscus. My question is since the word hybrid is used a lot does this mean these new cultivars are from mixed ancestry from the hibiscus family?

[Charlie]

Excellent question. The terms often used to talk about hibiscus have become confused over time. "Exotic hibiscus" has been used a lot but it really has no meaning. Exotic in general horticulture use just means plants from a different location, like tropical plants growing in North America. All Hibiscus rosa-sinensis hybrids are "exotic" using that meaning.

Hybrid hibiscus is more accurate but once again it applies to all hibiscus that are not species. Don't worry - it gets even more confusing. Karl Linnaeus gave the name Hibiscus rosa-sinensis to a plant that he believed was collected in the wild and that met the criteria to be called a species. Among those are the ability to set seed with pollen from other hibiscus of the same type or its own pollen and to produce offspring that are genetically the same as itself.

Hibiscus rosa-sinensis was cross pollinated with other species found growing on islands off the east coast of Africe and the resulting plants were the first hybrids of Hibiscus rosa-sinensis. Those species were Hibiscus lilliflorus, Hibiscus fragilis, Hibiscus schizopetalus, and Hibiscus genevieve. Later on it was found that hibiscus species from Hawaii such as Hibiscus arnottianus could also be successfully crossed with these other hibiscus species or with their hybrids.

For some reason it became the common practice to refer to the many hybrids resulting from crossing the above mentioned species as hybrids of H. rosa-sinensis. I suspect we have some hibiscus that were never crossed with H rosa-sinensis itself but used other species within the cross-compatible group. We still call them hybrids of H rosa-sinensis even if this is not actually correct.

To move ahead to modern times, all of the so called "exotic" hibiscus are hybrids of H. rosa-sinensis or one of the other cross compatible species. That includes those often referred to as garden variety and those often referred to as cultivars or exotics.

Personally I like the term "modern hybrids" of H. rosa-sinensis to refer to the varieties that have been hybridized in the last 20 years. This would include most of those that HVH sells and most that are entered in hibiscus shows.

BTW, the word cultivar, sometimes abbreviated cv is also used to refer to the modern hybrids of H rosa-sinensis. This is convenient but not accurate since cultivar only means "human cultivated plant" as opposed to a wild growing plant. Almost all the hibiscus hybrids must be cultivated by humans because they do not make viable seeds and will die out in the wild without human help. But, that is another story, for another time.

Conclusion - this is all pretty confusing! The only accurate way to refer to the hibiscus that we usually talk about is as "modern hybrids of H rosa-sinensis and other cross-compatible species". The problem with that is it takes too long to write so as long as we understand what is really meant we can just continue to call them hybrids, exotics or even cvs, despite the inaccuracies.  Any other suggestions?

 

[helixturnhelix]

I kinda like  Hibiscus sp. '(insert cv name here)'  Because you know hibiscus is the genus, and since its a hybrid there is no accurate species name.  The 'variety' can refer to the morph, which can describe what it looks like or the region is it from.  Since we name cvs, these names could go within the quotations.  I think that makes the most taxonomic sense in my head.

Example:  Hibiscus sp. 'Heaven Scent'

 just my .02. 
-Chris   

[Nievesgirl]

Thanks Charles for the info, I did not find it confusing at all. I used to breed purebred american bobtail cats and i am highly interested in genetics ( animals main animal I love are dogs ) Some of my cats where hybrids (bobcat and asian leopard cat with domesticated cat). This is what made me ask the question also.

I do not have any suggestions on what to call them Hellxturnhellx sounds like he or she is onto something 

[Charlie]

Hi Helix and Nievesgirl,

I like your suggestion, too. I'm afraid that 99 percent of the people who read Hibiscus sp. 'Heaven Scent' would not know what it meant exactly but if we were consistent about it they would learn. Do you have a background in biology or botany?

Nievesgirl, your background with animals is fascinating. Cindy and I are both into cats. She paints them and I enjoy watching them. Do you have any photos of your hybrid cats? I would love to see one.

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Hi Charlie,

I am a biologist, and have had plenty of experience trying to deal with what classifies a species.  In fact, every few years there is often a huge overhaul on phylogenetic trees when someone uses genetic analysis to determine the "relativeness" between two species.  I think it would be interesting to take genetic markers from the original species and compare them to which markers are present in modern hybrids.  Then you could know for sure which species were cross pollinated to make that variety.

-Chris

[Nievesgirl]

Hi Helix and Nievesgirl,

I like your suggestion, too. I'm afraid that 99 percent of the people who read Hibiscus sp. 'Heaven Scent' would not know what it meant exactly but if we were consistent about it they would learn. Do you have a background in biology or botany?

Nievesgirl, your background with animals is fascinating. Cindy and I are both into cats. She paints them and I enjoy watching them. Do you have any photos of your hybrid cats? I would love to see one.

Charlie

I took one botany class i was thinking about getting a degree in agriculture but my love for animals is stronger so I am in pierce colleges pre-vet program

Here are some pictures of my cats they are not direct cross. This is Iggy he is like 25% jungle cat ( I wish I had a picture of his dad his dad looks just like a jungle cat but a snow lynx color)



This is winter and she may have jungle cat I am not sure the breeder was not honest


This is our bengal we used to have all bengals have asian leopard cat in them. He was about 30lb his name was Shaq


This Yaz she has 25% jungle cat and like 5% bobcat this is when she was a baby


These are not my cats but they are beautiful
Here are some nice bengals



These are savannah cats hybrid of domestic cats and servals


F1 cub 50/50

[Nievesgirl]

this is ripken he is 25% bobcat I need newer pictures of him he is huge about 25lbs of muscle.

[helixturnhelix]

Oh man I want a giant 25 lb cat!  I really like pixie bobs and will perhaps seek one out when I go to graduate school.  I did the whole pre-vet thing, but in the end I decided that dealing with sick animals all day is too depressing.  The only thing that I can suggest for getting into veterinary school is. 1) grades and gre are very important. 2) get those animal experience hours ie. volunteering for a veterinarian or working as a vet tech.   Your experience breeding pixie bobs is unique so be sure to include it in your personal statement.  3) try to stay in the U.S. for schooling, although those Caribbean schools are easier to get into, you have alot of work trying to get your licensing to practice in the U.S.A.  Im pretty sure you said you were in California, so luckily we have two vet schools to choose from!  UC Davis and Western!  Awesome cats and good luck with getting into vet school!

[Nievesgirl]

Oh man I want a giant 25 lb cat!  I really like pixie bobs and will perhaps seek one out when I go to graduate school.  I did the whole pre-vet thing, but in the end I decided that dealing with sick animals all day is too depressing.  The only thing that I can suggest for getting into veterinary school is. 1) grades and gre are very important. 2) get those animal experience hours ie. volunteering for a veterinarian or working as a vet tech.   Your experience breeding pixie bobs is unique so be sure to include it in your personal statement.  3) try to stay in the U.S. for schooling, although those Caribbean schools are easier to get into, you have alot of work trying to get your licensing to practice in the U.S.A.  Im pretty sure you said you were in California, so luckily we have two vet schools to choose from!  UC Davis and Western!  Awesome cats and good luck with getting into vet school!

Yeah the pre-vet program guarantees that you will get into any vet school with good grades of course.  So this is why I am at pierce.  They are not Pixie-bobs these are American bobtails , Pixie bobs have ( sad looking eyes that is what i call them anyways lol)  They where the same breed in the 80's but now they are separate and you can see in their face that they are a different breed. Our breed comes in any color Pixie bobs only come in tabby markings/ brown colors like a bobcat.

[Nievesgirl]

here is a great link to see the difference ( I have some cats from this breeder )
http://attitudeacres1.homestead.com/Differences.html

[Nievesgirl]

Here is another cat we bred http://www.ozbobz.com/Kings.html

[Darkhorse]

Hi Nievesgirl,

   We have something in common!  I just applied to University of GA vet school last year.  Didn't get in, though.  Helixturnhelix is def. right in the advice he/she gave you...  good grades are a must, you need experience, and don't go to the Caribean (sp?).  Anyway, experience is a big thing for most vet schools, which is what cost me my admission.  Although my GPA is much higher than the average applicant and I have tons of animal experience (I train horses and teach riding lessons for a living, grew up on a commercial turkey farm), I didn't get in because I have very limited veterinary experience.  They want to know you're comitted to the field before letting you in.  So go work with a vet-- best to get small and large animal experience.  Any food animal experience is a big plus, as it's pretty rare, and most vets don't want to go into food animal these days.

Good luck with it, and your cats are awesome.  I want a savannah. 

Jordan

[helixturnhelix]

Nievesgirl:  Those cats are awesome!  Are you currently breeding them, because I might be wanting one in the near future

Darkhorse/Jordan:  Funny enough I've been to UGA's vet school and its really nice (I was there for a grad school interview).  At least Athens is a cheap place to live.  Don't feel bad about not getting in this year, it has been one of the worst to get into any type of graduate school because of the increase in applicants due to the downturn of the economy.  Get those animal experience hours! In fact, UC davis's average accepted applicant has 3000 veterinary experience hours O_o! I spent most of my time, (when I wanted to go to veterinary medicine) with an aquarium vet which was one of the coolest experiences of my life.  How many people can say they've assisted in sea otter physicals and bat ray eye surgery?   Jordan is completely correct in advising you to get large/food animal experience.  If you display interest in that field you have a very good chance of getting in because there is a huge need for large animal/food vets.  You could even say you are interested in that field even if you aren't and you can just change specialties once you get in. 

Are you guys both interested in small animal medicine or something more exotic?  What schools are you guys looking at? 

-Chris (btw im a guy )

[Nievesgirl]

Nievesgirl:  Those cats are awesome!  Are you currently breeding them, because I might be wanting one in the near future

Darkhorse/Jordan:  Funny enough I've been to UGA's vet school and its really nice (I was there for a grad school interview).  At least Athens is a cheap place to live.  Don't feel bad about not getting in this year, it has been one of the worst to get into any type of graduate school because of the increase in applicants due to the downturn of the economy.  Get those animal experience hours! In fact, UC davis's average accepted applicant has 3000 veterinary experience hours O_o! I spent most of my time, (when I wanted to go to veterinary medicine) with an aquarium vet which was one of the coolest experiences of my life.  How many people can say they've assisted in sea otter physicals and bat ray eye surgery?   Jordan is completely correct in advising you to get large/food animal experience.  If you display interest in that field you have a very good chance of getting in because there is a huge need for large animal/food vets.  You could even say you are interested in that field even if you aren't and you can just change specialties once you get in. 

Are you guys both interested in small animal medicine or something more exotic?  What schools are you guys looking at? 

-Chris (btw im a guy )

Hi , Chris and Jordan

At pierce we have cattle , sheep, pig, alpaca, llamas ( soon to be our llama died in dec so we will be getting 2 more) , chickens, horses, goats.

we have to work with these animals so I am covered with large animals. I just did the chicken unit they have us start out small and work our way up due to safety reasons. I need to get in a clinic but in CA irs hard getting a clinic job , I am not sure what i will do most want experience so I think I will send a resume out to some vets near by stating I need hours and see if I can volunteer and maybe get hired this way.

I love dogs and I would like to work with them but I know there is a real need in livestock vets, I am interested in horses and cattle. I am not sure where I would go. I have experience with marine life too I will be trying to volunteer at the aquarium at the pacific in long beach.

I like exotics but I do not think I would want to work with them much.

Chris I wish I would have know you wanted a kitty I gave most of my cats up for adoption due to my living situation. We kept my two stud cats and one female so we might be breeding them in the future , my friend breed american bobtails also her cattery is http://www.oztoca.com/

her name is Karen and if you contact her tell her Kerry sent you there. She has some cats with my bloodline ( not sure if she still has them) but one became a champion .