Proposal

[Charlie]

I've noticed that a number of topics that should end up on this Science board are discussed wherever someone is stimulated to bring them up by posting in whatever thread that is. It's my job to move them here but in the meantime don't forget that if there is a subject you are interested in the search engine that shows the magnifying glass to the left of the blank field works very well to find key words. Its' main limitation is that it searches only the board (main topic) that is open at the time it is used. For example, when I type in the word "hybrids" right now it returns all the times that this word appears in messages in the Science board. "Hybrids" exists on most of the other boards, too, so if you do not find what you want with the first search just open (go to) a new board such as Hibiscus Cultivars and do the search again.

That was a major digression there from what the Proposal is. Oh well, back to the proposal. Cindy thought of this and I like it. We come across all sorts of fascinating facts, theories, and new studies that have some bearing on growing hibiscus, small though the connection may be sometimes. We propose to share some of those with the forum if there is any interest and invite anyone else to contribute to these as well.

Minor example, that Cindy will expand later based on some reading she has been doing. Chlorophyl - did you know (I knew but had forgotten)  that chlorophyl is the same molecule as hemoglobin (important part of blood) except that hemoglobin has an iron atom and chlorophyl has a magnesium atom that the other lacks? There are several other fascinating aspects to chlorophyl that Cindy will write up when she can but anyway this is the type of tidbit, factoid, etc that we propose to add to the discussions on the science of growing hibiscus. Anybody want more?

Chris, if I have oversimplified please always feel free and encouraged to clarify. For new readers, Chris is a graduate student in biology working on his pHD and the only trained scientist participating in the forum, as far as I know. We are grateful to him for the insights he has made and continues to provide into the science behind growing plants.

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

I think you did a good job explaining how chlorophyll is similar to hemoglobin.  The main difference between the two is chlorophyll uses chlorin which is bound to Mg, vs hemoglobin is heme bound to Fe.  Heme and chlorin are structurally similar and perform similar functions, so I think that the analogy holds.  In fact you see this same metal core structure being conserved and shows up in other organisms like horseshoe crabs.   Horseshoe crabs use copper as its metal core instead of iron.  This makes its blood green, if we used copper instead of iron we would also have green blood. 

Funny thing that you posted this because there was an interesting article today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38754192/from/toolbar

It talks about how in aspen trees, there is decreased sexual reproductive success the more that these plants are cloned.  I wonder if this holds true for hibiscus.  If as you continue to take cuttings of good seed setters, eventually they no longer set seed.  Going back to this, perhaps a variety whose clones do not set seed, trying the original seedling plant would set seed.  Do you usually keep the original seedling plants? 
   

[Charlie]

Chris, that info about Aspen trees is sure thought provoking. I have no idea if that holds up for hibiscus. I don't think I have any original seedling plants that go back more than 5 years and few that go back more than 3 years. However, this article makes me think that I should test for seed setting with the original seedling plant before letting it go. Interestingly, the seedlings do not grow like the rooted or grafted clones. They grow much taller than the clones and rarely make as nice a bush as the clones. Another peculiarity I've noticed is that a 4' high seedling plant in a 2 gallon pot takes twice as long (more or less) to use up the water in the pot as compared to a 4' high clone in the same size pot. When treating with systemic pesticides you have to be aware of that and not water the seedlings too soon or the systemic can get washed out of the pot.

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Thats too bad!  What happens to these seedling plants? 

[Charlie]

Funny enough, but I don't know what happens to them. The keeper varieties anyway. The ones not good enough are tossed or occasionally sold or given away if someone wants one. I think what happens is that the named ones get pruned back hard enough to fit in with the other stock plants of that variety and no effort is made to ID them as the original seedling plant.

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

If they are placed in with the stock plants, its probably easy enough to add an O next to the tag of the original  

There are a few seedlings you showed this year that if they don't pass I would be happy to give them a home, lol.  Speaking of which did you take pics of the BTBW x April shower seedling without the spotting?  Did it still have the picotee or is it a plain brown one?

How about Lion Heart? Is that one a go?  That one is a standout for me, really like colors and form on that one.  Perhaps this needs to be moved to the seedling page