Hibiscus Species compatibility

[helixturnhelix]

Hi Charlie,

I understand that there were several species of Hibiscus that were used to make the first hybrids that we call exotic hibiscus.  Do you know, whether or not tropical and hardy hibiscus could be crossed?  I know that they are in the same genus, but I am curious if because these are hybrids of many different tropical species of hibiscus, that they may be more receptive to other hibiscus species pollen. 

Also when looking at hawaiian hibiscus species do you know if Hibiscus tiliaceus, or hau was used or can be used for hybridizing exotic hibiscus? 

Just a bit curious on this stormy Saturday night

[Charlie]

Crossing tropical hibiscus with the cold hardy species has been a topic of much interest for quite some time. Imagine having the big beautiful tropical flowers on a bush that can take a freeze!

Some people have claimed to successfully crossed Hibiscus rosa-sinensis with Hibiscus syriacus but there is no proof that this really was achieved. Since Hibiscus syriacus self seeds readily most people believe that is what happened in the few cases where someone has claimed to have made a successful cross.

A few years ago some university (can't recall which at the moment) reported that they were using advanced genetic techniques to attempt to combine the genes of tropical and cold hardy hibiscus. They were quite encouraged at the time that they might succeed, but since then I have heard nothing more and expect that they encountered problems.

The other case I am aware of is too convoluted to describe fully in this space. The short version - there is a company that specializes in native hardy hibiscus hybrids and has in fact patented several of them. When one of the principals passed away his assistant found notes of his that indicated his belief that he had made a successful cross of Hibiscus moscheutos with Hibiscus rosa-sinensis. There was no other proof but she went ahead and marketed this plant. I don't know much more about it and have not heard that it accomplished what one would hope - hardiness and improved flowers. I should ask around about this one and see what happened with it.

Anyway, bottom line is that this is still an intriguing possibility but one that has eluded human attempts to achieve the goal in a meaningful way. So far.............

[Charlie]

Chris, Hibiscus tilaceous has not been used to cross with H rosa-sinensis as far as I know. I was given a plant of this last year and found that it roots readily so now have a few more of it. It has very pretty variegated foliage but I have yet to see a flower on it. It's supposedly a small red single but, since I took cuttings from the larger plant I was given, that prevented any flowering last summer.

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Very interesting Charlie, I would very much like to see if I can get some H. Mosheutos pollen and see what happens with a good seed setter.  I think most hardy hibiscus dont really bloom till late August, but if it stays warm this summer, they may bloom earlier. 

I cant wait to see some pics of H. tilaceous!  The ones I have seen are yellow flowers with a dark eye, so it will be neat to see yours!

[Charlie]

Hi Chris,

I did a little searching, and based on the below web page it looks like I have a cultivar of H tillaceus called  Tricolor due to the variegated leaves. If the info is correct, the flowers open yellow and turn red as the day progresses. Google brings up images of both flower colors. I will take some photos of the plants I have in 6 inch pots. No flowers that I have seen so far, but the bush is pretty enough.


Here is some info off of deserttropicals.com.

Hibiscus tiliaceus, yellow flower, leaf,

Temperature Zone:
sunset: 23-25,27
USDA: 10-11
Sun Exposure: Full sun, to part sun

Origin: Tropical Asia, has become pantropical

Growth Habits: Evergreen shrub or small tree, up to 25 feet tall and wide (7.5 m); heart-shaped leathery leaves, 4 to 8 inches long (10-20 cm), with whitish pubescent undersides

Watering Needs: Moderate water, drought and salt tolerant

Propagation: Seeds, cuttings, air layering

There are several varieties and many cultivar:
- Purpurascens: is a cultivar with purple leaves
- Tricolor: a variegated cultivar with green, cream, and burgundy in the leaves


Blooming Habits:
Large showy flowers, lasting onee day, often starting yellow in the morning and slowly turning red during as the day as the flower matures.

[helixturnhelix]

Hmm it would be really interesting to see if you could get viable offspring by crossing H. tillaceus with H. rosa-siensis.  

Imagine all the new combinations you could get!  I have seen F1 and F2 of crosses with H. kokio, so you could get attractive offspring, in only a few generations.  

Here are two examples of H. kokio crosses by Jill Coryell, as expected orange is dominant, but wow they are bright!  I think she has some H. waimeae, H. arnottianus, and H. fragilis crosses too.  

Star of Gladness is first, then Mo'opuna. SG is an F1 and Mo'opuna is F2.

Debutante Ball is an F3 H. arnottianus cross. 

[blupit007]

So now that I'm trying to be a big bad hybridizer and run with the big guys...ahem... I crossed my Lord Baltimore with Belle du Jour.  Not knowing anything other then Belle is a good seed setter, and LB is a hardy.  I didn't think of them as different species.  Don't know why I didn't...  So, it prolly wont work, huh?!  A well! 

[Charlie]

If you succeed with that cross you will be hailed far and wide for doing so! Many have tried, none have yet succeeded. Occasionally someone will claim to have gotten seeds using H rosa-sinensis on something like a Hibiscus syriacus but that species is well known to self seed and none of the results have shown qualities of H rosa-sinensis when grown out. There is work in laboratories here and there trying various methods to combine the genes of cold hardy hibiscus with the genes of tropical hibiscus. Maybe one day.........

Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Perhaps there is a little hardy hib running through the phloem of keylime pie and its multilobed leaved offspring.  If only there was a reliable genetic test for sure.   

[blupit007]

Well, Im sure it wont work.  It has been a little less then a week... So I wouldn't see anything anyway.  And I am back to spraying Belle with Hort oil due to another outbreak of Spitermites... I think that is what they are again.  Why her and no one else???

[Charlie]

Belle's an older plant, right? Lots of places to hide in the craggy old bark. Be sure to spray the whoie plant and not just the leaves. In the greenhouse Belle is one of the first to be attacked by mites but in our outdoor garden we don't have any problem with Belle and mites. Kind of hard to figure.

Charlie

[blupit007]

Yeah, she looks pretty old.  Would it be better if I just took the oil and painted it on the wood like I did for snow scale once?

[Charlie]

Is this a current photo of Belle? She looks all right. Are you actually seeing the crab like mites on the bottoms of the leaves? I don't think painting it will do much good compared to spraying for mites. Works great for snow scale, though.

Charlie

[blupit007]

No, this is the photo of it in June when I first pulled her out of the box.