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Author Topic: Bloom color and Fertilizer!  (Read 1455 times)
Nievesgirl

Posts: 938


« on: July 30, 2009, 10:46:59 AM »

Ok this may sound too complicated to explain but here it goes! Chris I am sure you have the answer so please remember I am not too plant technical lol. So it’s ok to dumb it down for me. Some times when I read your other post I am like OMG I need to re read it to make sure I understand it hahahah.

Any ways my question is about hibiscus color and fertilizer.  I was wondering when is the color affected by fertilizer? Is it when the bud is forming (pea sized) or when the bud is about to produce the colors? I hope that makes sense. I have opened falling buds that were not ready to open before. The petals of the bud was, all green and no color.  Then I had some buds I opened that had green with lots of color forming (these where older buds maybe about to bloom in 4-5 days)

I am asking because the dramatic difference in my heartbreak hotel. When I got it the colors look like the path and not HH I was shocked. I know weather has something to do with it but, I think in this case it was lack of good fertilizer.  The next bloom tha open was like night and day !
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~Kerry~
helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1714



« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 11:14:08 AM »

Hmmm I am not too familiar with the effect different fertilizers have on bloom color.  The most important thing to remember when your looking at those buds forming and the petals are green is the fact that chlorophyll is present in the petals, making them green.  As the bud matures the chlorophyll leaves the petals and they eventually become whatever pigment they were originally.  Think about leaves in the fall (or pictures of fall when you live in so cal) Leaves from different trees are originally red, yellow orange but chlorophyll pigment masks them up, so they appear green.  When the chlorophyll is absorbed by the plant in the fall, the leaves show their true colors.  The same thing happens in flowers.  They are green until the chlorophyll is absorbed.  I like to think of hibiscus colors as layers, you have lavender blooms that are red pigments and blue.  Then you get interesting cvs like blue ballerina where it is only blue pigment being expressed, and not red.  If there was red, then it would look totally different.  I think that you wanting to work with brown cvs could produce some really interesting cvs.  It is pretty hard to figure out what pigments are being produced to make the bloom appear brown.  Take for example creme de la creme, which is a brown but has a purple overlay vs voodoo magic which is a brown with an orange/red overlay.  Both are browns, but are probably brown because of a different concoction of pigments. 

So going back to fertilizer and pigment, I think the most important thing is to give a fertilizer that is good for that type of plant.  In the case of hibiscus they need that extra potassium to produce pigment.  It makes sense that once you added that extra potassium to your fertilizer regime for HH had brighter blooms.  With more potassium HH could make more pigment and thus have brighter blooms.  Micro-nutrients needed for flower formation varies with species.  In hydrangeas aluminum sulfate is needed for blue flowers because the protein that makes the pigment blue needs an aluminum atom to work, if not it is pink.  If certain hibiscus need micro-nutrients to make specific color it would be interesting to experiment with it.  Adding small amounts of different nutrients and observing the color intensity would be pretty interesting. 

Im sure Charlie could tell us for sure the effect of different micronutrients have on flower color, but I think that HH colored up because you gave it the right ratio of nutrients it needed and was lacking before Smiley
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Nievesgirl

Posts: 938


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 11:51:13 AM »

Hmmm I am not too familiar with the effect different fertilizers have on bloom color.  The most important thing to remember when your looking at those buds forming and the petals are green is the fact that chlorophyll is present in the petals, making them green.  As the bud matures the chlorophyll leaves the petals and they eventually become whatever pigment they were originally.  Think about leaves in the fall (or pictures of fall when you live in so cal) Leaves from different trees are originally red, yellow orange but chlorophyll pigment masks them up, so they appear green.  When the chlorophyll is absorbed by the plant in the fall, the leaves show their true colors.  The same thing happens in flowers.  They are green until the chlorophyll is absorbed.  I like to think of hibiscus colors as layers, you have lavender blooms that are red pigments and blue.  Then you get interesting cvs like blue ballerina where it is only blue pigment being expressed, and not red.  If there was red, then it would look totally different.  I think that you wanting to work with brown cvs could produce some really interesting cvs.  It is pretty hard to figure out what pigments are being produced to make the bloom appear brown.  Take for example creme de la creme, which is a brown but has a purple overlay vs voodoo magic which is a brown with an orange/red overlay.  Both are browns, but are probably brown because of a different concoction of pigments. 
So going back to fertilizer and pigment, I think the most important thing is to give a fertilizer that is good for that type of plant.  In the case of hibiscus they need that extra potassium to produce pigment.  It makes sense that once you added that extra potassium to your fertilizer regime for HH had brighter blooms.  With more potassium HH could make more pigment and thus have brighter blooms.  Micro-nutrients needed for flower formation varies with species.  In hydrangeas aluminum sulfate is needed for blue flowers because the protein that makes the pigment blue needs an aluminum atom to work, if not it is pink.  If certain hibiscus need micro-nutrients to make specific color it would be interesting to experiment with it.  Adding small amounts of different nutrients and observing the color intensity would be pretty interesting. 

Im sure Charlie could tell us for sure the effect of different micronutrients have on flower color, but I think that HH colored up because you gave it the right ratio of nutrients it needed and was lacking before Smiley

thanks for the info I did not know about the chlorophyll leaving certain parts of the plants. Very interesting

as for the red quote I agree I see layers also.  This is why I am going to get a UV light and see what I find. I will take more macro shots of the petals and you can see so much going on with the colors in macro mode.

A great example of layers is Charlies Amethyst heart ! that cv has a nice effect in the center. I have noticed these same layers in other misfire offspring.


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~Kerry~
helixturnhelix
Seattle, WA

Posts: 1714



« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »

Amethyst heart was really interesting.  Its too bad Charlie lost his plant Sad  Well at least I will get to enjoy one of its offspring next year, yay! (BC)
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Nievesgirl

Posts: 938


« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2009, 09:12:58 PM »

 I used just plain water for a while to make sure the salt build up would drain out of my heartbreak hotel pot. When I dipped the hibiscus in the bath to get rid of spider mites I was sure I got most of it out . This bloom looks a little better than my first bloom of HH when I first got it. It is obvious it was not getting all the nutrients it needed due to color.



here is the first bloom when I first got it.



After the spider mite bath I fertilized this cv probably 4-5 times ( when watering )
here are two new blooms. You can still see some pink.




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~Kerry~
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