Darkest Browns

[Nievesgirl]

What are some Cv's are the darkest of the browns ? I have voodoo and its pretty dark but ,I am not sure what it will produce for me.
A lot of people say get topaz glory but I have read that its not a good bush.

I see trends with hibiscus just like trends with breeding dogs. The winners are bred a lot and create a smaller gene pool since everyone has to have that cv's qualities. I hope that makes since.  Any ways what are some other cv's know for producing browns

[helixturnhelix]

Couldn't agree more,  I think that is part of the reason it is good to find those cvs that have genes from the original hibiscus species.  I think orville davis can produce some dark offspring.  Also wallflower is supposed to be a good brown.  I still like creme de cacao  

[Nievesgirl]

Couldn't agree more,  I think that is part of the reason it is good to find those cvs that have genes from the original hibiscus species.  I think orville davis can produce some dark offspring.  Also wallflower is supposed to be a good brown.  I still like creme de cacao  

I forgot you mention this cv , do you have more pictures of it ?  off to look at it on HVH 

[helixturnhelix]

I will take some pics the next time I go and see the bush (its not my plant), it is really nice.  I took some cuttings so hopefully I will have my own soon . 

[Nievesgirl]

cool , I looked at it and I need something darker , voo doo is darker than that.

I am getting some seeds with wallflower in its back ground maybe I could just used these seedlings on voo doo ?

[Darkhorse]

If you're looking to produce some dark browns you could try Gabriel, too.  We already know it can have dark offspring from VM.

[helixturnhelix]

Thats a good thought Jordan.  Looking into VM,  Gabriel is kinda a orange blue bloom, and renaissance blue is a blue one.  Together the make brown.  Maybe you should try crossing a blue and orange to see what happens.  I think that moonmadness can also produce offspring that are brown.

[Charlie]

Tigerama has been used to make a lot of good quality browns. It's offspring do not root as well as I want so I don't use it that often but I've seen photos of some good ones come out of it. Voodoo Magic is not a good seed setter but you can get pollen from it when conditions are right. Geronimo is a good seed setter, something I only found out this year. I have some seeds growing from it that could be dark. I've grown a lot of seeds that had Orville Davis, Wallflower, Misfire, Topaz Glory in them and hope we can do better in the future.

Another way to go would be to cross Black Dragon with browns and see if it darkens them.
Below is a new photo of Burnt Saffron,  which is the result of crossing the bright orange of Saffron with Black Dragon. Not a brown per se, but it shows how the darkening sometimes works.

 Charlie

[helixturnhelix]

Burn Saffron looks really cool, I think it was featured in one of your newsletters.  Is it temperamental like Black dragon or more vigorous?

Looking back at that newsletter is 08-0136 the same cv as denim revolution?

Always enjoy seeing pics of the new seedlings

[Darkhorse]

I too remember Burnt Saffron from the newsletter.  It's another one on my list if it passes your tests. 

[Nievesgirl]

I will probably try dragon's heart on voodoo and see what I get.

I seen a lot of tigerama seedlings but have not seen a lot of browns ( using the IHS search) , I have 4 seedlings growing from a devil's eye x blue bayou cross.  So I could probably use one to get some browns too.

I forgot I mentioned getting Campfire girl I can not wait for it. I should have it in Sept.

[Charlie]

Kerry, that's what I mean about the backlog of registrations - a great many new cvs are not registered yet because most of the Americans refuse to register with the Australian database (which is where the IHS gets their info). I finally gave up on the American one and started registering with the Au one but only got about half the new ones registered there so far. So when the American people contacted me last week I thought, finally, we may get somewhere soon. I'm sure hundreds of new cvs (up to 1000?) will be registered with the American database when it is finally active again. You are not finding them now which is why the Tigerama search did not yield anything in browns.

Charlie

[Charlie]

Chris,

I don't know about Burnt Saffron yet. I have a few 8 inch pots of it growing for evaluation but they are among many others at the moment. When they start blooming I will spot them again and take a good look. Yes, Blue Denim is 08-0136. A similar one is 08-0131 but it does not set seed so is not given much attention yet.

Charlie

[Nievesgirl]

Kerry, that's what I mean about the backlog of registrations - a great many new cvs are not registered yet because most of the Americans refuse to register with the Australian database (which is where the IHS gets their info). I finally gave up on the American one and started registering with the Au one but only got about half the new ones registered there so far. So when the American people contacted me last week I thought, finally, we may get somewhere soon. I'm sure hundreds of new cvs (up to 1000?) will be registered with the American database when it is finally active again. You are not finding them now which is why the Tigerama search did not yield anything in browns.

Charlie

That makes sense, I do know that the HIS data base is not updated at all  I have found some info on there that was wrong, I have also found wrong pictures placed.
So the AHS has a data base like the IHS ? I hope they get it up soon I would love to see newer Cv’s

[Nievesgirl]

I believe renaissance blue is the cv making dark brown also because look at voo doo and look at black cherry !

I am on the waiting list for it so hopefully it comes out soon !

[Charlie]

The history of hibiscus nomenclature is debated sometimes but the basic facts are not in dispute. By the 1950's everyone involved in collecting and showing hibiscus realized that there was a big need for a nomenclature that would keep the many names straight and prevent duplication. The American Hibiscus Society was established at that time with the primary goal being to establish the nomenclature and also to promote hibiscus growing. The first database of names was published shortly thereafter.

Later on the Australian hibiscus growers wanted to build and keep their own nomenclature due to the better efficiency of local collection of new hibiscus names at shows, etc. According to some Au sources they asked for and received permission to use the American nomenclature as their base, and then began adding their own names. In the 70's someone in Australia applied with a Swiss based authority that oversees nomenclatures for various plant species to become the world Registrar for hibiscus names. No one in the USA was aware of this development so there was no buy-in by the American hibiscus community for this "World Registrar".

For the last 40 years 2 nomenclatures have been kept - the US and the one in Oz. They have occasionally swapped data so you will find some cvs from both areas in each nomenclature. An attempt was made about 10 years ago to force the US to recognize the Oz Registrar as the sole authority for hibiscus nomenclature but this was a fiasco and only served to alienate the Americans further. Since then new people have become involved in Oz and some talks have been held that were less acrimonious. Even so the AmHS decided to continue to maintain their own nomenclature but to cooperate with data sharing with the Aust nomenclature.

The IHS is a relatively new organization and when the leaders became interested in maintaining an online, searchable database they made an agreement with the AustralianHS to use their nomenclature. When one submits info about a new cv on the IHS web site the info is automatically emailed to the Australian Registrar and is entered in the Australian database otherwise known as the Checklist.

So yes, there is a US database of hibiscus names, and it is apparently about to be released in new form with lots of new cultivars entered into it. LSU (Louisiana State University) has a contract with the AmHS to maintain the database. It remains to be seen how well and how timely they will be in making the info available.

According to Sam Andrews, former Pres of the AmHS and the person who made the deal with LSU, "Louisiana State University's Burden Agricultural Center has been designing
and will permanently host our new American Hibiscus Society Nomenclature
website once it launches later this summer. Keeping this in mind, we are ready to begin loading cultivar photos that the Nomenclature Committee will link to the correct cultivar record through a
manual matching process over the next few weeks."

Charlie

[Nievesgirl]

The history of hibiscus nomenclature is debated sometimes but the basic facts are not in dispute. By the 1950's everyone involved in collecting and showing hibiscus realized that there was a big need for a nomenclature that would keep the many names straight and prevent duplication. The American Hibiscus Society was established at that time with the primary goal being to establish the nomenclature and also to promote hibiscus growing. The first database of names was published shortly thereafter.

Later on the Australian hibiscus growers wanted to build and keep their own nomenclature due to the better efficiency of local collection of new hibiscus names at shows, etc. According to some Au sources they asked for and received permission to use the American nomenclature as their base, and then began adding their own names. In the 70's someone in Australia applied with a Swiss based authority that oversees nomenclatures for various plant species to become the world Registrar for hibiscus names. No one in the USA was aware of this development so there was no buy-in by the American hibiscus community for this "World Registrar".

For the last 40 years 2 nomenclatures have been kept - the US and the one in Oz. They have occasionally swapped data so you will find some cvs from both areas in each nomenclature. An attempt was made about 10 years ago to force the US to recognize the Oz Registrar as the sole authority for hibiscus nomenclature but this was a fiasco and only served to alienate the Americans further. Since then new people have become involved in Oz and some talks have been held that were less acrimonious. Even so the AmHS decided to continue to maintain their own nomenclature but to cooperate with data sharing with the Aust nomenclature.

The IHS is a relatively new organization and when the leaders became interested in maintaining an online, searchable database they made an agreement with the AustralianHS to use their nomenclature. When one submits info about a new cv on the IHS web site the info is automatically emailed to the Australian Registrar and is entered in the Australian database otherwise known as the Checklist.

So yes, there is a US database of hibiscus names, and it is apparently about to be released in new form with lots of new cultivars entered into it. LSU (Louisiana State University) has a contract with the AmHS to maintain the database. It remains to be seen how well and how timely they will be in making the info available.

According to Sam Andrews, former Pres of the AmHS and the person who made the deal with LSU, "Louisiana State University's Burden Agricultural Center has been designing
and will permanently host our new American Hibiscus Society Nomenclature
website once it launches later this summer. Keeping this in mind, we are ready to begin loading cultivar photos that the Nomenclature Committee will link to the correct cultivar record through a
manual matching process over the next few weeks."

Charlie

thanks for all of that info Charlie , I seen the AU data base and of course the IHS but never the american one. I just thought we use the AU one since its states world register. I can not wait for the AHS data base to be up and running. Please keep us update or let us know when its ready !

[helixturnhelix]

Chris,

I don't know about Burnt Saffron yet. I have a few 8 inch pots of it growing for evaluation but they are among many others at the moment. When they start blooming I will spot them again and take a good look. Yes, Blue Denim is 08-0136. A similar one is 08-0131 but it does not set seed so is not given much attention yet.

Charlie

It would be interesting to see if Bunt Saffron is a better grower than Black dragon.  I was thinking about another interesting cross to do between Black dragon and Dragon's heart.  They are both offspring of Dragons Breath, which have a very dark color.  It would be interesting to see if their offspring are dark as well because most likely their dark gene is from the same source, Dragons breath. 

It is a good thing that Blue Denium sets seed because I am sure we will be seeing some of its offspring in the next few years.  It might be interesting to see if it is crossed with gator pride the offspring would look something like when GP was crossed with blue ballerina.  Perhaps you could get a totally solid blue flower from that cross!  At anyrate I am pretty excited for the possibilities of that cv.   

-Chris