Repotting to bigger sizes

[farmer d]

We have had some great posts on the daily blooms pages concerning potted hibiscus and switching up to bigger sized pots.  For me having most of mine planted in the ground I have seen how unbelievably large the root systems become for these plants.  Works well when you got good drainage and the space for them to spread out and the results for the plants are amazing.

My approach to potted hibs is the same, and I have quickly realized that my 10" pots are not even close to handling my CVs the way they need it.  I really want them to be big, huge monster plants on my porch in pots.  Not just the ones in ground.

I have also noticed how different and negative the conditions are in pots vs in ground.  Drainage is a big challenge especially for certain hibiscus varieties like Tahitians that have a much more narrow comfort zone to thrive in and go down hill so quickly when not happy especially when overwatered. 

The soil is also a whole different ball game.  I can plant most of my in ground CVs in organic planting mix which holds the water in almost too well and as long as the ground gets sun at some point during the day it seems to be the right mix for the in ground plants.  In pots forget it, maybe a terra-cota pot that can dry out faster but a glazed pot seems to hold that water in there much longer. 

So I am slowly changing over my pots to oversized 16"ers with really wide bottoms to let those root balls get huge and search for the conditions that work for them.  Maybe some areas towards the outside are going to be drier and of course towards the center always wetter.  My water meter has shown me how wet it can stay around the middle of the root ball.

I started using a cactus/palm mix (2/3) with a layer (1/3) on the bottom of just cactus mix to ensure better draining.  As I was doing this yesterday I was amazed at how quickly the roots of my Tahitian Royal Court were already wrapping around the bottom of the 10" pot it was in when I removed it for repotting.

I'm really curious to see how this will affect my potted hibs going forward.  It's two totally different mindsets with in ground and potted.





Please share your thoughts and knowledge here...

Farmer D

[helixturnhelix]

Hi Darren,

Potted plants are a totally different ball game, and one thing that you need to worry about with potted plants is not over potting.  Unlike the ground, pots dont necessarly have all those nice aerators getting air into the soil and preventing anoxia.  In large pots you have to worry about anoxic conditions as well as the soil staying too wet, promoting fungal and bacterial growth.  As a general rule for potted plants you really just want to slowly pot them up 1 to 2 sizes at the most.  I have a very large Cinnamon girl plant at my parents house which was close to 6 feet (I did a hard prune last time I was home) and is in a 15 gallon pot.  It did however take about 4 years to work its way up to that size pot.  Especially with wet weather on its way in Southern California, I would just leave your potted plants in their current pots until spring, when growth is ramping up, rather than slowing down.  Judging by the root ball on your T. Royal Court, it is far from root bound, so it will easily be fine in that pot until March or April of next year, when you can pot it up and let it go.  My mom potted up the large Saffron and Acapulco Gold I gave her at this time last year, and they got root rot and died over the winter.  Its up to you, but I really would hate to see you lose those tahitians you brought back from the bring of death this spring.   

[Doll]

Darren, I think deeper pots would be better than going with such wide pots. Look at the difference it made when Charlie switched from the standard 6" pots to the 1 gallon pots.

[farmer d]

Chris,

Such useful and informative information as always from you.  Thank you.

Don't worry about the Tahitians they all but Royal Court have in ground spots waiting for them as they don't tolerate the really hot days on my porch too well.

Root rot has been my main problem in the past and that is half the reason for me switching out to bigger pots with a better soil strategy for drainage and aeration.  Also from an economic stand point I would want to skip having to buy in between pot sizes and spending the extra money on those if possible.

My thinking is even with much larger pots the proper soil mix and use of my water/alkalinity meter should hopefully be enough to mimic in ground conditions better and produce results similar to some of my in ground plants.  Remember that the bottom 1/3 of my pots are pure cactus mix for optimal drainage since my water meters can't reach that far down in the soil to know what is going on.

I'll also be placing earthworms in the soil to further aerate the soil as well as promote better root health too.

One big draw back though is the pots are really heavy without plants so moving them if need be is a challenge but can be done for now.

Farmer D

[davidwood]

Darren all my Hibs are in pots and most of them in large heavy pots, one thing that has certainly helped with the weight issue [as in having to move the pots] is the use of Perlite in the mix, I use a minimum of 25%, being so light it does make a difference.

That pot you are swapping up to is lovely, but its shape will make it awkward if you ever need to re-pot or trim the roots in the future, basically with it being fatter in the middle it wont slide out of the pot as a whole. There is an easy way to get it out, especially if its for the purpose of trimming the roots and I will let you know in the future should the need arise.

Interesting to read that you are trying to mimic what you have in the ground, well the whole reason for my big change a few months ago was for me also to try and mimic the results you where getting by growing  in the ground, and I would say my plants have improved about 500% and still improving.

[farmer d]

I agree David, having this forum to exchange ideas and information has been critical for me to also achieve great results.  Most importantly I have been able to fix a lot of my learning mistakes as I continue to learn before they kill off my plants (most of the time...).

Chris has been an invaluable wealth of information here as always and I just keep applying many of these ideas and see if I notice any need to tweak them as we are discovering we are in uncharted waters many times.

I have now begun to replant most of my in ground Tahitians with the palm/cactus mix before the winter rains and colder temps show up.  They are more sensitive than Charlie's creations and I haven't had them through a winter yet so I'm doing whatever I can to give them what they need to make it through ok.

Next is to get some Plankets to cover my hibs if a freeze should occur.

Farmer D

[roadrunner]

Great info everyone. I also have my entire collection in pots which is up to 92 plants with 2 more coming after this weekend's store restocking. All my plants are in lighter plastic pots  since I need to move them inside and out depending on the season. Those have their own set of problems, the worst being wind. Our cold weather could hit any day now and I'm prepping for the big move inside. I'd dread the thought of suddenly needing to move David's collection in those beautiful (I'm assuming heavy) pots because of a sudden cold snap. Fortunately that isn't an issue in his climate.  My goal was to go no larger than 8 to 10" pot size to keep the plants smaller because of space issues. This has worked for many but not all. I'm finding many of these cultivars don't really show their best in the smaller pots sizes and 10" isn't large enough for many like Flickering Flame, Acapulco Gold, Pina Colada, and First Lady to name just a few. I just lost my very vigorous Pina Colada when it suddenly went into a funk and didn't grow out this spring in its 10" pot. I was amazed at the long finger diameter roots snaking around the bottom of the pot which were over 2 feet long. Needless to say I lost the plant and Charlie may not be propagating it any longer. It looks like at least 12" containers may be more optimum for many of my collection but I'm sure they'd do even better in larger than that, but I agree with Chris, don't over pot, move them up gradually. Before I got into these exotic hibs I grew several of the garden variety. They were all purchased as one gal plants which eventually ended up in 16" containers after a few years and a series of repottings to larger size pots. I think how fast you can move them to larger pot sizes depends on their vigor, or in my case my energy level.

dave

[helixturnhelix]

Sorry to hear about losing Pina Colada, that is one that sure is pretty and has a nice yellow pedigree, with Crimson Ray and Georgia's Pearl as its parent. 

[farmer d]

I hate to hear of any loss especially with all the heart felt work and love we put into making these plants hopefully flourish.  I try to just keep looking forward like Charlie but I'll sit there for a few weeks muttering under my breath about any latest casualty I might have had.

Now I am trying my best to understand the need to gradually work the way up to larger sized pots in an incremental fashion but I honestly don't agree.  I can see how anoxia can occur as well as root fungus which has been my CV killer here and I'm sure for many others.

I have thought about it a lot and would think that if the proper soil mix that ensures great drainage and aeration as well as my pots being protected from rain and freeze by my porch overhang I should see some great results over the long run with my large sized pots (16" + oversized wide).  If anything my biggest fear is that if we have a scorcher of a heat wave and I can't move my plants that would be my worst situation to threaten my potted CVs (shade cloth then).

How can having a really big pot to start be a problem when you take into account possible obstacles of a potted environment and eliminate them.  If I can plant my CVs in a large open planter like I have and they do great then if I am careful and observant of how to create the same conditions in a large pot I don't see any harm jumping to a large size right off the bat as long as I am constantly checking to make sure I am not missing anything with mimicking the same conditions as in ground.

To me hibiscus are large shrubs that want and need to grow big and tall and/or wide and with that comes large woody trunks and root systems to match.  When you leave them in a pot that isn't too big that plant is going to struggle more and more over time as it's root system is way out of balance with it's soil medium it is living in.  So I would think the only option if you can't go bigger in the pot size is to prune your roots to match the size.  I would also think that if you're going to prune the roots you better prune your plant as well so that the roots and plant size are in balance for a healthy energy producing and consuming synergy.

Let's see in a few years if my potted plants can achieve results similar to those of my in ground ones.  I'm happy to be the Guinea Pig.

Farmer D

[helixturnhelix]

I look forward to hearing how it works out for you.  Hopefully the cool wet weather will hold off until your plants get more established.  I've lost a few CVs repotting this late in the year, but my parents house gets a bit cooler at night than the Hollywood area.  It's been very nice fall in the PNW, looks like the rain is comming this week though

[Denise]

I thought this question would work in this category.

Can I keep the new 4" plants I received this month in the container they came in through the winter? Or a pot similar in size?

Thanks!

[Charlie]

Yes, keep it in this pot until next spring and then when it's starting to warm up move it into a 1 or 2 gallon size pot.

Charlie